How are you guys handling the Coronavirus chaos?

Discussion in 'The Chatter Box' started by HoosierShadow, Mar 12, 2020.

  1. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    You're very hard to understand. I think the phone or whatever it is you're using to type is getting in the way of proper communication more than anything else. Between run-on sentences, sentence fragments, and misspellings it's often hard to get your actual meaning.

    There were already eight different identified strains (or perhaps a better word would be "variants") of Covid-19 in May of last year. There have to be thousands more than that by now! But these mutations don't make the virus something other than Covid-19. I may not be in medical research myself, but according to the folks who are studying this virus, the various mutations are genetically still quite similar to one another. Are these folks lying to us? If so, what is their purpose? To keep people from panicking in the face of almost certain death and debilitation if this virus is capable of out-mutating all attempts at vaccination or natural immunity?

    I personally don't think so. Just because a virus mutates doesn't make it a game of whack-a-mole. I have confidence that our immune systems are designed to deal with the long-standing fact of viral mutation. Viral mutations are nothing new. They've been happening since the dawn of time and yet mankind marches on. Vaccines are a new phenomenon in the course of human history that train the immune system to fight a virus without having to actually be sick from it. mRNA vaccines are themselves new in the field of vaccines and I find them rather fascinating. They've been in development for over 30 years but never tested until now. I'm not planning to get one myself for a very long time (if ever) for a variety of reasons. However, I hope that these are good vaccines and that they will improve in time and be applicable to other types of diseases.

    You say the vaccine was thrown together to appease the population... are you saying that the vaccine is nothing better than a bit of magic "sugar water"? If so, then it won't take more than a few short months for people to find out it was a scam. If the vaccine doesn't work, then a significant percentage of the folks who got it are going to find themselves coming down with Covid within the next year. That would be an unfortunate situation for many reasons, not least of which is the complete erosion of people's faith in medical and scientific integrity.
     
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  2. Iluvlilly!

    Iluvlilly! Well-Known Member

    Apr 6, 2019
    Wisconsin
    I feel this is a mess. What's the point in talking about depressing (kinda) things. Life is to short to be sad and try to figure this all out. Its totally fine if that's what you want to do, but maybe try and keep it a little more cheerful? This is just my personal opinion.
     
    Moers kiko boars likes this.

  3. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    767
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    The spike on the virus is what the vaccines are promoting our immune systems to recognize. As long as the spike protein doesn’t mutate to a point where our immune system no longer recognizes it, the vaccine should remain effective.

    The newer variants do have some mutations in the spike protein, but not to the point where our immune systems won’t recognize the virus. That spike protein is what binds to the ACE2 receptor to enter the body, so if it mutates to have less binding then there will be less uptake.

    Recent studies are showing robust immune response from natural infection in most people. One I read today was saying there was still immunity in most of the study sample at 7 months out. Some people do get reinfected but it is not common. This is great news.

    As for dying from Covid being labeled in those with multiple comorbidities, if this virus trashes your lungs and causes you to have stroke/pulmonary embolisms, and brings death sooner than if you hadn’t gotten the virus, then you died from covid. I don’t see how that is confusing. Now the labeling of someone dying from trauma but happened to be covid positive doesn’t make sense.
     
  4. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    Lets make this very simple.
    If your goat has worms. You have 1 wormer you can use. Because we never had this new worm before. So...the vets say 1 wormer will destroy all the worms in every goat. Because the vet says so.
    You try it on your goats. It works on one..but the rest still have worms. So you try it again. Does it work? Why or why not?
    Same scenario as the covid 19..and the vaccine. Do you understand now?
     
    Iluvlilly! likes this.
  5. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    Sorry if it's not cheerful. I personally enjoy discussion and debate. I find it mentally stimulating and I nearly always learn something. Hopefully no one thinks we're being uncivilized toward one another. Disagreement can be healthy as long as we don't let our emotions get involved.

    This video is on-point and even though I'm not personally planning to get vaccinated, it still made me laugh...
     
    Iluvlilly! likes this.
  6. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    Well... I thought I understood this particular point already. Your analogy appears to be treading ground we already covered: namely that you do not believe the vaccine will work. If that's the case then vaccine failure will become obvious over the next several months.

    Is there some other part of your analogy I'm supposed to be picking up on here?

    You try it on your goats. It works on one..but the rest still have worms. So you try it again. Does it work? Why or why not?

    If I followed the correct protocol and observed a 95% failure rate after the first try, then I would not expect it to work any better on a second attempt. Why not? Because doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is insanity.

    The problem here is that the vaccine is as yet untried. We are in the pre-dose stage where the vet has only told us this will work. In the case of Covid vaccines, it's going to take a good year before we have solid reason to believe it works. If it works as poorly as the wormer in your analogy then we can look back, observe the total failure, and not bother trying it again. That would be a major tragedy and setback for the scientific and medical communities as their reputations are completely on the line here!

    My question is WHY do you believe the vaccine is a failure? My opinion is that we just don't know. The trials appear promising, but there has not been enough time to see if the vaccines will offer long-term protection or cause unexpected side effects that may not be observed for years down the road. I am optimistic that the vaccine will do a good job protecting against Covid. My concern lies with possible long-term side effects, particularly since this is an entirely new class of vaccines. Vaccination, like all medical procedures, requires one to weigh risks against benefits. For me personally I see little benefit to being vaccinated. Covid presents minimal risk to someone like me and I'm still young enough to be concerned about possible long-term side effects from the vaccine. On the other hand, if I were already quite old or in a high risk demographic, the potential long-term risks associated with taking an untested vaccine would pale in comparison to catching Covid. It's all about the trade-offs.
     
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  7. jschies

    jschies Well-Known Member

    Aug 14, 2014
    I hope that there are no lasting side effects.. My 25 year old EMT son received the first dose, ran fever for several days, was tested for COVID 3 days later and was positive. He really thinks that the fever was just a side effect and he didn't really have it. His wife did have it at the same time. She had no other symptoms, but couldn't taste toothpaste and decided that she better get tested since we were going to be with older people. She didn't want to spread it. I hope that my son is wrong since the second vaccine's side effects are supposed to be worse! I think he gets it next week. My parents are signed up to get vaccinated at the end of January and then again in February. So I guess that those 3 people are the guinea pigs in my family.

    This all needs to be over soon. It is terrible for our children in school. At my school we have parents keeping their kids home for a day or two because it was more convenient for them. One kept his son home so they could use his computer to search for video game cheat codes!! We blocked Youtube on his computer after that. Some of the kids that do have to stay home can't get good internet even with the equipment we provided to them. The high school kids of my coworkers are scared of getting sick.... There are just so many bad things about this for children, and they have discovered that the students are 3 months behind... I wonder why...
     
  8. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    Your son wouldn't be able to test positive from the vaccine. It doesn't contain any live virus. However, he could certainly get sick with Covid about the same time he received the vaccine and then he would test positive. He could very well be experiencing his symptoms from being sick as opposed to having them from the vaccine.

    It is crazy how all this is affecting school. Because of the remote area where I grew up, about half the kids in my hometown were homeschooled (there was no local school after 6th grade), so growing up I generally took it for granted that it's the parents' job to educate their children rather than the government's. I've often wondered how such an all-important task came to be so completely entrusted to the government (of all things!). I kind of hope that the current crisis leads to more creative and family-oriented methods of education. I know this won't work for everyone, but if more families can shoulder the burden of overseeing their children's education, or at least start being more closely involved rather than trusting it all to the government, I think it could be a positive change. Clearly, as you point out, some families just don't care about their kids' education. That's a real pity.
     
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  9. jschies

    jschies Well-Known Member

    Aug 14, 2014
    Yes, some just don't care. There are others that do care and are really struggling when the kids have to be home. I can't imagine trying to help several early elementary kids get their work done!! The teachers try the best that we can, but it just isn't the same as being with our students.

    I do think that my son had the virus when he got the shot. I'm hoping that the second shot doesn't affect him too much.
     
    Moers kiko boars likes this.
  10. luvmyherd

    luvmyherd Well-Known Member

    Apr 9, 2011
    NorCal
    Both of my daughters are teachers. They are putting in much longer hours than they were before distance learning. I will say that it is improving as more teachers and students get accustomed to it. They both do some of their teaching from their classrooms which they like better than being at home.
    My grandson is actually doing remote band and sometimes when my daughter is teaching he is having band and his baritone can be heard throughout the house.
     
    Iluvlilly! and Moers kiko boars like this.
  11. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    How's it going @Tanya? I noticed that you haven't posted in a little while and I wanted to make sure everything's okay.
     
  12. Boers4ever

    Boers4ever Well-Known Member

    673
    Jun 28, 2020
    East Texas
  13. Tanya

    Tanya Well-Known Member

    @Boers4ever and @MadHouse It has been such a crazy time. Gizmo went down on Friday, Destiny followed suit on Saturday. The vet ran tests and found both to have Polio. Today they are doing better, so I am sorry I haven't been online. I will pop in as soon as I have a chance. I must say thank you to this group as I did allot of reading about polio and my vet has been amazing. Both my babies are camped out in Chevani's room, and getting only hay.
     
  14. MadHouse

    MadHouse Well-Known Member

    Sending prayers to you and your two babies!
     
  15. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    @Tanya So sorry for your little guys being so sick. Im glad your vet is good and is working with you! Hope they recover soon. Glad to know you are well and doing ok. Please keep us informed !
     
  16. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    Best wishes to you. Sending good thoughts and prayers the goaties recover quickly!
     
    Kass, GoofyGoat, Iluvlilly! and 2 others like this.
  17. Damfino

    Damfino Well-Known Member

    Dec 29, 2013
    Right behind you
    Sorry your goats are sick, Tanya!
     
  18. Boers4ever

    Boers4ever Well-Known Member

    673
    Jun 28, 2020
    East Texas
    Wow Tanya so sorry! Sounds like they’re getting good care. Hang in there!
     
  19. GoofyGoat

    GoofyGoat Well-Known Member

    Sep 21, 2018
    TEXAS
    @Tanya oh no, I’m so sorry they’re both down. You’ve really had a rough bout with things lately. You’re a very strong person, so I’m sure that your two babies are receiving the best of care. Take care of your self too...lots of vitamins. Sending prayers and hugs to you, gizmo and destiny!
     
  20. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California