How to Breed My First Doe

Discussion in 'Kidding Koral' started by MellonFriend, Apr 10, 2020.

  1. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    After talking to my vet and other people in my area I have decided to breed my doe Bella to my buck Phantom to kid sometime in late October to November depending on when her heat cycles work out. So that puts my earliest date for breeding sometime in May. I know there are a couple different methods for doe/buck breeding and I want to know what your opinion is on what I should try.

    First some background. My doe Bella is a kinder and they are not seasonal breeders. She is also a year old and this will be her first time. Before March she was cycling every eighteen days on the dot. It was very apparent she was in heat because she would hang out at the corner of the pasture where she could be closest to the bucks and wouldn't even leave them even at night.:rolleyes: Now in March she stopped having these obvious heats and I've been having more trouble telling whether she is or not. For example today I think she is, her lady parts look a bit puffier than normal, she roughhousing with her buddy Prim, and she is paying some attention to the bucks. So is it normal for aseasonal breeders to slow down "off season"?

    So the second part of my question is where should I set up Bella and Phantom for their first date? I've heard leash breeding can be done but pen breeding could be an option for me too. Phantom is a bit nervous on leash (by the way this will be his first time as well). We've been working on acting normal on leash, but I would be worried that he would be too nervous to do the deed. Maybe that's crazy though, he is a buck after all :oohlala:. The other problem with leash breeding would be the fact that I am having trouble predicting when Bella is in heat, But maybe I could just keep trying everyday?

    The other option I have is I have a pen that I could put them both in. Here it is: IMG_5329.JPG The picture makes it look smaller than it is. It is my alternate buck pen that I am currently growing some more forage in. As you can see there is a lot of new grass coming up and I am worried about two things if I use this. One would be that will they be so interested in the new grass that they won't care about their date? Or is that just crazy again? Secondly, is the fact that they are both currently not on this fresh and lovely of grass and I have some concerns about bloat. Thirdly, would be the fact that I couldn't even leave Bella in there with Phantom for say a month or so, because Prim, my only other doe, would probably flip out not being able to be with Bella all the time even though the pastures are adjacent.

    Sorry for the book I just made you read. I guess I've thought about this quite a bit. So what do you think I should do? Leash? Pen? Something I haven't thought of?
     
    Goataddict, Iluvlilly! and MadHouse like this.
  2. Sfgwife

    Sfgwife Well-Known Member

    Feb 17, 2018
    North Cakalaki
    It may be hard to get a seasonal breed to get it done in the off season. Nearly impossibly most of the time. I am not sure if the meds for inducing heat will work on off season or not. I do not see why they wouldn’t but someone more experienced with that can help you. With that there is a process you have to do though to get the doe to cycle.

    If you want an exact date try catching her in heat is the best option. Is the separate pen very near the regular doe pen? If it is put the buck in there and watch them both for signs she is in heat. Then put her with him. Watch them to see if it happens. You can leave her in there for a day or so and just keep an eye on them and her lady bits to see if she has gunk on there.

    The other option os puttin them both in that pen and leaving them together for a longer while. What would be two cycles would be what i would do in that situation. And thirtyish days after you separate draw blood and send it in for a preg test.
     
    Iluvlilly!, MadHouse and MellonFriend like this.

  3. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    Just to clarify, she is not a seasonal breeder. I don't know if I'm just confused about whether seasonal or not seasonal means which thing, but I know that the kinder breed can be bred year round.
     
  4. CountyLineAcres

    CountyLineAcres Well-Known Member

    Jan 22, 2014
    Mineral Ridge, Ohio
    Boers aren’t seasonal breeders either but let me tell you... it can be a gamble getting them bred between March and June naturally - more so for first timers in our experience.

    You can try either method. There’s no wrong answer. You can put them in a pen together, and if they aren’t interested, you can try hand-breeding or vice versa. Best way to know is to try and find out!
     
  5. Chelsey

    Chelsey Well-Known Member

    276
    Dec 6, 2018
    From what I understand, they do ‘slow down’ in the warmer months whether or not they’re seasonal. I have a Nigerian whom I believe is in heat, her timeline is correct from her kidding, but she isn’t being as vocal about it as last fall. It might help to KNOW if she is in her cycle by bringing her to the buck, kinda teasing her. Bucks seem to get the hang really quickly (my gosh, I have all bucklings so far, a four week old Nubian, three week old LaManchas, and a two week old Nigerian and they ALL already know how to breed), he may be a bit clumsy at first, but just let him try as long as she’s willing, and he’ll do fine. It sounds as if you have multiple bucks together, and the two does? So putting Bella in Phantoms pen won’t work because she’ll get pretty harassed in there. Is the empty pen some place where Phantom won’t be lonely? Where he can see and hear the other goats? You can have him stay in there to clear the grass (slowly so he doesn’t get sick on it) and he’ll have it all ready for Bella next cycle, (although another problem could be pen size, if she refuses him and you’re determined for this breeding, she could keep enough distance between them so that he’d never get to her) If not then to me it would sound like leash breeding is your best bet. If both are on a leash, I’d suggest having two people, one for each goat, to make sure nothing goes wrong. Even with my tiny Nigerians, my buck could drag me around if he was determined enough to get to a girl. Sorry for rambling. You seem to have a pretty unique predicament. Good luck figuring it out!
     
  6. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    We watch our does for signs of heat and when she’s ready we put her in a separate area (either middle section of the barn or a separate pasture) with the buck. Our bucks aren’t shy and will usually service the doe several times in a matter of 10 minutes or so. They then go back to their respective sides. We repeat the same process about 12 hours later. We’ve been mostly successful using this method. This year we’re going to be trying for some fall babies this year so we’ll see if this method works as well for spring heats since they’re not nearly as obvious as the fall ones. Ours are year round breeders too.
     
  7. Sfgwife

    Sfgwife Well-Known Member

    Feb 17, 2018
    North Cakalaki
    I misread the NOT a seasonal breeder part. Sorry!
     
  8. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    If you hand breed, you would have to daily behavior test for a full cycle until they breed. The other option is for them to live together for a month.
     
  9. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    I agree with CountryLineAcres. She may not follow the rules. My boers are usually not all year long breeders either unless I catch that first heat after weaning, which I don’t, then I have to wait for breeding season. Although some seem to cycle all year long, I have one of those, it’s quite annoying. And this year I don’t know what has them all screwed up but they have been cycling since their kids were 2 months old and still cycling. Goats just don’t like following rules!
    I also agree that there is no wrong way how to get her bred. It really comes down to what works for you. There’s some that will let the doe and buck get together and only let him service her a few times and then pull the doe. My friend has her buck pens and when does come into heat she lets them in until out of heat. I put all the bucks and does together and I pull them out 3 months later. I can tell you why I do it that way. I don’t want to miss a heat. I don’t want to mess around putting does in and out with the buck. I just have too much on my plate to do that and if that’s the only way to breed mine I’m sure I would end up with a good amount of does not being bred. I go with 3 months because usually all my does come into heat at the same time. There’s the dominate does that are usually stuck to the bucks and will beat up the lower girls to keep them away so those usually don’t get covered. The next month they are covered and the third month to cover any just in case they didn’t. But you only have one doe so you probably wouldn’t have to do that long.
    So just think about how it works best for you. If you’re working or going to school whatever and are not home every day putting her in for a month would probably work best. If your there every day and you can spot when she is in heat then putting them together for a limited time would work too.
     
  10. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  11. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    Thanks everyone for the help. I think I will try leash breeding and see how that goes. It's going to be really interesting to see how this goes. I'll be sure to tell you guys how it went. So if she isn't in heat when I try it first she won't let him breed her, and that's how I'll know?
     
    Moers kiko boars and MadHouse like this.
  12. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

  13. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  14. lhorning

    lhorning Active Member

    260
    Jun 26, 2017
    In my humble opinion... I like leash breeding much better. I like to know when my does are due. I hate mystery due dates. For me it is MUCH easier to take my doe on a leash and bring her to the buck. My girls are happy to go to the date, and usually equally happy to leave after the deed is done. The bucks however only like the coming part, and never like when the date is over. It's always fighting and dragging until they are back in their own pen. I even had a dramatic boy who would fall to the ground and act paralyzed. It finally dawned on me to put the doe on the leash and it has worked much better.
     
  15. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    645
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    One thing we do is run our wether with the does when we’re starting to track heat cycles. He lets us know pretty clearly when the girls are ready.
     
  16. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    I have 3 bucks. I suggest using a mateing marker on your buck. Sometimes it takes a young buck a few times to get it together. You can get different colors for each day. You would know what day, or how many days she was bred.
    There are several different ways. Good luck in finding what is easy for you.
     
  17. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    Thanks again everyone! I am going to shoot for due date sometime in late October at the earliest so any time after mid May if I see signs I'll set up a leash date with Phantom. I'll let you all know how it goes! So exciting!:clapping:
     
  18. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  19. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    So tonight they had their first date. It didn't go very well....

    I wasn't sure if Bella was in heat. The only signs I saw is she paid a little more attention to the bucks today than she usually does when I took her for a walk by the buck pen, and she's been sparing with Prim more than usual. She also was super affectionate toward my Dad this morning which in the past sometimes has coincided with her heat cycles. So I gave it a shot.

    I took them both out of their pens on leash, and Bella immediately upon realizing she could get to him, hackled up and started rubbing on him and gently butting him. He tried to ignore her and started eating some weeds :rolleyes:. I pulled him back over to her and he continued to ignore her as she tried to entice him to spar. No blubbering, no peeing on himself. Nothing.

    Just to see what happened I brought him over to Prim who I had been more heavily suspecting of being in heat and she seemed like she could hurt him she was trying to butt him so much. He such a sweetie he didn't even fight back.

    So finally after about fifteen minutes, since I was worried he was a little nervous being on leash, I took him back into his pen, let him off leash, and brought Bella in on lead. Same thing. She remained hackled and I paraded her past him and he did nothing. Eventually he started eating so I removed Bella and that was the end of that!

    I think Bella was probably not in heat after all. I have seen much more obvious signs than she was giving, but what the heck, nothing to loose so I gave it a shot.
     
  20. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    Date #11, I think, yesterday. Still no dice. I think I am going to rethink my plan. I do not want to kid deep into January or February at all, so I need my bred date to not pass August 4. So I'm just thinking about chucking Phantom in with both my does and not worrying about having them both get bred. My family drinks a lot of milk so it would be nice to have them both milking as first fresheners anyway since I don't know how much I will get out of them their first times. Starting on the 23rd of June I will put him in and leave him in through two heat cycles and watch for signs that he's doing his job. He so far has showed no interest in Bella and the most she pays attention to him is to butt him when I offer them both leaves, so I think I would be able to still have an idea for a due date. And heck, if I notice he has bred one, and not the other, I'll just take him out and then I'll still have only one doe bred like my original plan. It's not that big a deal though, I was just originally planning to stager their kidding dates so I wouldn't have to deal with both of them since this is my first time, but I'd rather have them both bred than neither.

    So until the 23rd I'll just keep trying hand breeding and see how it goes.

    And if all of this fails I'll wait to breed them when it is actually breeding season, be it only one of them or both, to kid next year in March or April.
     
    MadHouse and Iluvlilly! like this.