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Hi all! I know this is a common topic, and I could've just searched for someone else's thread that covers the same topic, but I have, believe me, and my brain is swimming from all the possibilties. I don't think I'm getting anywhere that way so, I hope you can help me. It's so much simpler when you get feedback on your specific problem. This is such a great forum. Thank you all in advance for your help. I'm so grateful to have it.:)
So, my problem is that first of all, I didn't know as much as I thought I did about worming.
A couple years ago when we had a worm problem, the vet told us to worm every 2 to 3 months, and to change out the wormer sometimes. Well, being otherwise uninformed, we assumed he meant to change the wormer every two or three months, so we never used the same wormer for more than three months in a row, and now I'm worried that we were changing it too often.
We have been using Panacur, Ivermectin (I think) and Cydectin, and we have used an herbal wormer before, but it's been a long time since we used that. I would guess maybe a year or so.
Recently, we were using Panacur for around 3 months, so I thought we should change it again like usual, so we got Cydectin and gave it to them. I checked their eyes maybe a week after that, and they looked like "acceptable/borderline" color on the FAMACHA chart on the goat-link website.
So, I got out some dewormer that I recently ordered from Hoegger. It's called Golden Blend. I figured since I've never used it, it should be more effective, but it's been a day since I gave it to them, and their eyes are even paler than they were! They are light pink now, and my two Nigerians that I got recently have practically white eyelids.

Did I just check too soon, or have I been doing everything drastically wrong? I really want to get this figured out, please advise me.
 

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Sorry you are having this problem :(
The only wormer I have ever had a need to use was ivermectin, and that itself has been very minimal.
With goats, wormers should not be rotated at all but used used until they are no longer effective..... have you had a fecal checked to see exactly which type of parasite you are dealing with?
There are only certain worms that are bloodsuckers and will cause anemia... underdosing can cause resistance as opposed to getting rid of the parasites causing the problem.
Febendazoles are good for tapeworms in certain areas, Ivermectins work for barber pole...in certain areas, I only use a wormer after a doe kids and also do fecals on all kids here starting at 3 weeks of age, if I see evidence of eggs I worm accordingly, if not then I don't.
Pale lids can also occur when a goat is stressed or sick... B vitamins and Iron supplements can help with anemia if there are no worm eggs present in fecals.
 

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Worm issues can be VERY confusing & a head scratcher for sure!
First of all, the best way to worm is to get a fecal so you know what you are dealing with.
Now this is just how we do it & is by no means the right way for all herds everywhere; Since they are not on pasture & do not eat off the ground their loads will be lighter than those who turn them out into short grass/pasture. We worm twice a year, once before breeding & the day of kdding. Both times done 10 days apart.
We have always used Ivermectin. Have never used herbal treatment for worms.
The combination of changing up wormers and/or underdosing is what causes resistance.
Pale membranes can indicate amemia caused by heavy wormload.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
First of all, the best way to worm is to get a fecal so you know what you are dealing with.
Now this is just how we do it & is by no means the right way for all herds everywhere; Since they are not on pasture & do not eat off the ground their loads will be lighter than those who turn them out into short grass/pasture. We worm twice a year, once before breeding & the day of kdding. Both times done 10 days apart.
Our goats used to do better, I think when their pen was smaller, because the grass never had a chance to grow at all. But now their pen is bigger, but not big enough for them to graze all the time. The grass just stays at 2 or 3 inches, and they do try to eat it, so I think that is a big problem for us. We are taking one of our doeling's to the vet tomorrow, so do you think if I got him to do a fecal check on her, would that be enough, or do we need to get them all checked?
 

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sounds like fecal for all would be the best course of action to start with.... at least you'll know what you're up against for each goat. should be fairly easy since you don't have too many

our vets down here told us to worm every 6 weeks, and IMO that's way too often, especially if the goat doesn't need to be wormed.

we have short grass around where our goats browse, and they seem to do fine with it. I'm having worm issues with a doe who kidded 5 weeks ago and I find small flare-ups with her after it rains, but my other dry doe hasn't had to be chemically wormed since Feb. I was using safeguard/fenben but didn't like it, so I switched to Ivomec for chemical wormers. I do herbal worming the rest of the time, and my girls get a garlic clove a day.

I hope your vet will be able to get you some answers soon, and hope your babies feel better! keep us updated!
 

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It would be ideal to have them all done but what you can do is get several & just bring in the samples. Cheaper & eliminate hassle of having to take her in.
For instance a sample from your least suspected loadee to the least thrifty one and a couple inbetween so you have a good cross section.
What you collect should be abolutely fresh, the second she goes have a baggy ready, and off to vet asap.
Mark baggies with goat's name.

eta on the other hand your vet might insist on seeing one, but bring in other samples as well
 

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oh, and the goat breeder I got my girls from say that warm molasses water can help soothe wormy bellies. I put enough molasses to look like strong tea, then a pinch of baking soda (maybe even some salt an make it an electrolyte...can't hurt, right?). please correct me if i'm wrong on this..... i'm still very new to goats.

are your goats copper deficient? I fight copper issues as well (no bolus available down here), and I think because of that my girls are paler than the average healthy goat, and I read low copper can make goats more prone to parasites.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I don't know if my goats are copper deficient or not. I give them loose goat minerals and free choice soda and salt. How can I tell if they're copper def. ?
 

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I've been told to watch for faded colour around eyes and a red tinge to dark-coloured coats and fish tail. I look up other symptoms, and can include rough coats, anemia, hoof problems, winter hair that doesn’t shed on time, less chance for does to get pregnant and getting sick more easily.
 

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Have you used valbazan? If not, get yourself a bottle of it, dose at whatever is recommended on here, not on the bottle. SOmoene will chime in, or you can probably find it by searching. Also, I have always heard to deworm 3 times in a row, every 10 days, so 3 dewormings in 1 month.
 

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I would not do any further deworming until you have the fecal done to include coccidia. I would take a sample in for each of your goats and have them tested separately.

I also would not have the extra salt out. Just the minerals. Usually even if you have a good loose goat mineral, they still need copper bolusing. But that depends on your area and where you iron levels are (iron binds copper so it doesn't get absorbed as well).
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I would not do any further deworming until you have the fecal done to include coccidia. I would take a sample in for each of your goats and have them tested separately.

I also would not have the extra salt out. Just the minerals. Usually even if you have a good loose goat mineral, they still need copper bolusing. But that depends on your area and where you iron levels are (iron binds copper so it doesn't get absorbed as well).
Well, our goats haven't ever been bolused while we've had them, so I guess it's about time we did it! :D As for the extra salt, I believe I read it in a goat book somewhere that you still have to give salt because there's not enough in the minerals, so that's why we did it. But if you think it could be harmful, we won't do it anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
We finally got the vet to do fecals on all our goats today, and yay! they actually don't have any worms at all!:D It turns out, they had cocciadosis. (I suspect because we did not quarantine my new Nigerians when we got them a few weeks ago.:(
So he gave us "Corid" to put in their water, and I just got done cleaning the water troughs, and putting the medicine in them. We're supposed to give that for five days. Hopefully that will clear up the problem. And he didn't seem too worried about them being copper def., but said it woudn't hurt to give them some. He only had cattle-sized boluses, though, so we're going to try to order some for goats, I guess, unless anyone knows the dosage for goats? He said we could open them up and sprinkle it on the feed.
I'm so happy! Thank you all for your advice. Happy ending!:D:fireworks::thankU:
 

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Great news on the no wormload and excellent you found out it was cocci.
Those copper rods are made for bolusing, the intent is to get them into the stomach lining, they arent really suppose to chew them. I dont have the dose handy.
 

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great you got answers!

I think if you search copper bolus on the forum, it will show up somewhere the dosage and how to administer.
 

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I hope they will drink the water, as corid is not too tasty.
It works better as a drench to actually be a treatment, when you put it in the tub it is more of a preventative.

The drench solution for corid is on the bottle, but I will list it anyway.

3oz corid
16 oz water

drench at a rate of 5cc per 25lbs for 5 days.
 
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