I think I messed up...

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by TeHwrd, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. TeHwrd

    TeHwrd Member

    23
    Jan 16, 2021
    Kansas
    We have 3 Nigerian Dwarf babies, all now wethers, one is almost 6 weeks (dob 12/11) old and 2 are almost 4 weeks old (dob 12/26). When we got them a week ago we thought we were doing a good thing and bought Sav A Kid milk replacer. I think they were just drinking regular milk before we got them. We took them to the vet to disbud, castrate and just check them over. She recommended adding more water than directions called for because it could be hard to digest. Because one had a snotty nose, vet did a fecal and the fecal was clean and all three babies checked out fine. Vet sent us home with abx for his little bit of a snotty nose. Now diarrhea seems to be going around and both of the other 2 have snotty noses. The vet gave abx for all 3. They all 3 seem to have round little tummies too. Should I switch them back to store bought whole milk? If I do, do I need to give them anything else in the bottle? Also, how much should they be drinking from the bottle? The lady we got them from just filled them up and it was a free for all - she had like 15 or so bottle babies. We’re trying to offer them goat feed and alfalfa, but I’m not sure they are eating much yet. They just kind of nibble at it. After reading about milk replacers on here, I’m a little worried about them and sure want to undo anything I may have done ...
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
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  2. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    766
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    For ours that need a bottle, if goat milk is not available we use the whole cows milk (red top) mixed with some buttermilk and evaporated milk. There are charts out there to feed based on the kid’s body weight. For our NDs, the most I fed at a time was 9-10 oz. At the age yours are, I feed 3-4x a day. Leave them wanting more, but with a full belly. You don’t want to over feed them. They should be starting to pick at hay and grain. I’d offer some grass hay for them to nibble on too.

    Did the vet check for coccidia? They’re about the right age for it, and it can be devastating in young goats. Diarrhea and bloating are signs of it. Wormers don’t work for it, you need sulfa meds, Corid, or toltrazuril.
     

  3. TeHwrd

    TeHwrd Member

    23
    Jan 16, 2021
    Kansas
    Our little guys are taking 6-8oz 3x/day. I may go ahead and switch them to the red top milk. I’m assuming probiotics from the buttermilk, what does the evaporated milk add? Do you have approximate ratios?

    Okay, they are picking at the hay and grain, especially the older one.

    The vet talked to me about getting a feed that helps prevent coccidia, she raises Oberhasli goats, but I’m not sure if she checked for that. I will call and ask tomorrow. Thank you so much for your insight!
     
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  4. Caileigh Jane Smith

    Caileigh Jane Smith Well-Known Member

    494
    Dec 1, 2019
    Missouri, USA
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  5. happybleats

    happybleats Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    You need to switch slowly. I would stop replacer for 24 hours.. feed quality electrolytes in place of milk. Allow tummies to settle. Then start whole cows milk. Put a pinch of baking soda in first bottle of the day. Now you don't want to over feed. Weigh babies and multiply their weight by 16 to get weight in oz. Then multiply that by 10-12% to see how much per day they need. Divide into 3 or 4 bottles. Feel tummy after each feeding..you want a flat but firm tummy..not too poochy and not sunken in. Ad just milk as needed.
     
  6. NDinKY

    NDinKY Well-Known Member

    766
    Aug 3, 2019
    Kentucky
    That sounds like a good amount, would be best to get a weight on each and monitor to make sure they’re gaining appropriately. Like happybleats said, switch slowly.

    The recipe I use is 1 gallon whole milk, 1 can evaporated milk (not the sweetened condensed), and 1 cup full fat buttermilk. The evaporated milk adds a bit more protein/calories. I remove enough of the whole milk to add the evaporated and buttermilk to the jug then mix it up. As I use the mixture I’ll add back the rest of the whole milk so it’s not wasted. Plain cow milk is fine too, I switch to that once the babies are 8 weeks old or so.

    Definitely ask your vet about the coccidia.
     
  7. TeHwrd

    TeHwrd Member

    23
    Jan 16, 2021
    Kansas
    Okay. I’ll be heading to the feed store here soon to get the electrolytes. I fed them their diluted milk replacer, only 4oz though, this morning because I felt bad not feeding them at all. I’ll get their weights too and go with that amount of the milk. They were 6.5, 7.5, 8.5 pounds last Wednesday at the vet. What is an average rate of gain for ND kids? Are they okay with nothing but electrolytes for 24 hours? Do I still offer them the goat grower and hay? At what age do I start the minerals?
     
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  8. TeHwrd

    TeHwrd Member

    23
    Jan 16, 2021
    Kansas
    I’m going to get some electrolytes and will get weights on them. What is an average gain for ND kids? There seems to be a LOT of conflicting info when I looked online before we got these guys. I’ve had horses, chickens, dogs, cats, but goats seem to be a bit trickier even than the horses! I’m glad I found this group.
    Thank you for your recipe. I just talked to the vet and she wants to treat for coccidia, especially since they’re not eating much of the grower yet, which has coccidia preventative in it.
     
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  9. TeHwrd

    TeHwrd Member

    23
    Jan 16, 2021
    Kansas
    Our ultimate plan is to have dairy goats for our family’s milk and some soap making. We’re looking at Oberhaslis, Nubians, and Nigerians. We definitely want a Nigerian or 2 as well as one or two larger goats. We went to look at a ladies Nigerian herd and she recommended getting our feet wet with wethers. I had planned on at least another month of researching baby goat care before jumping in, but we ended up leaving with these 3 little guys. We are absolutely loving them and I just want to make sure that they are given the best we possibly can. We also realized that having these guys would allow us to buy just one dairy goat at a time and possibly get better stock than if we had to buy 2 or 3 since goats are herd animals.
     
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  10. Caileigh Jane Smith

    Caileigh Jane Smith Well-Known Member

    494
    Dec 1, 2019
    Missouri, USA
    Your breeder is wise! I think wethers are easier than does, though you do have to watch for urinary calculi. They make nice companions and are really quirky and fun.
     
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  11. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
  12. happybleats

    happybleats Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    AbX is usually short for antibiotics.

    Wethers are fun and without hormones can be easier than intakes or does. However they have their own problems if castrated too young and or fed improper.

    Yes 24 hour of electrolytes won't hurt. And can be good for them to rest their tummies.
    Coccidia prevention starts at 3 week ish old. Vet usually recommend Corid but if you can get Dimethox injectable (given orally) Also can get under the name Sulfa Drug. Corid can work..but you need to dilute and dose proper and you need to watch how they do on it. Let us know which treatment you get and we can get you doses and such.
     
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  13. TeHwrd

    TeHwrd Member

    23
    Jan 16, 2021
    Kansas
    Sorry. Antibiotics.
     
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  14. TeHwrd

    TeHwrd Member

    23
    Jan 16, 2021
    Kansas
    I will definitely check in here after I get the treatment from the vet. I’m fortunate to have a vet that breeds, raises, and shows goats herself.

    How young is too young for castrations? They were castrated last Thursday and would have been one day shy of 5 weeks and two days shy of 4 weeks. Hopefully over the next couple of days I will get their feeding sorted out.
     
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  15. happybleats

    happybleats Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    Its best to castrate after 4-6 months old. This allows the urethra to grow in width allowing easier passing of stones. Since your boys were young..being careful with their diet..keeping a ratio of 2.5- 1 of calcium and phosphorus as they begin eating solids more and more. Most feeds are at 2:1 and hay and browse is high in phosphorus so we add alfalfa to help boost calcium. As they reach a year old..its best to slowly remove feed all together and keep a diet of hay browse and some alfalfa.
    Google urinary calculi in goats and get a good understanding of it and what to watch for. Don't freak out lol..just learn and then feed the boys proper and you are way ahead of the game.
     
  16. jodane

    jodane Active Member

    111
    Apr 18, 2017
    Alpharetta, GA
    for all bucks wethered or not, if you want to feed some grain, you should add 1 tsp of Ammonium Chloride (AC) per day to the grain to acidify their urine to prevent urinary calculi. I have read some conflicting info on here recently about AC recently, where someone was saying it only needs to be done a few times a week.

    Also, I didn't see anyone mention this so I'm going to. Once you get the diarrhea under control, you need to watch them carefully for constipation. usually the mother goat licks their bottoms to stimulate pooping, They can easily become constipated and if that happens, they'll develop bloated bellies. You'll then need to give enemas if that happens.
     
  17. TeHwrd

    TeHwrd Member

    23
    Jan 16, 2021
    Kansas
    Yikes! Thanks for this information. I didn’t know about the AC and will definitely watch for constipation. I’m so glad I posted here!
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
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  18. TeHwrd

    TeHwrd Member

    23
    Jan 16, 2021
    Kansas
    Okay- so the vet gave me Albon Suspension for the boys. 5mL today then 3mL every day for 4 days.

    They had their mid day bottles of the electrolytes and are snuggled up in their pen in the living room. Nights have been so cold here, I feel bad having them out in the barn with no mamas to keep them warm. They were completely inside at the breeders house, but we put them out in a pen outside from mid-morning until dark. Am I being ridiculous with that?
     
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  19. happybleats

    happybleats Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    Albon is good. Its brand name for Dimethox. We do 1 cc per 5 pounds day one and 1 cc per 10 pounds day 2-4. Not sure how that works out with what you're dosing.

    No, you are not being ridiculous at all. Its great to get them outside as much as possible but if temps are super cold..sleeping in at night is ok. Just need to be careful bringing them in and put too often..the temp change can cause issue.
     
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  20. TeHwrd

    TeHwrd Member

    23
    Jan 16, 2021
    Kansas
    Good to know about bringing them in and out.
     
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