I'm not sure what I think about this...

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by RunAround, Jan 8, 2009.

  1. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
  2. FunnyRiverFarm

    FunnyRiverFarm New Member

    Sep 13, 2008
    Hudson, MI
    Yeah, I agree, there is something very wrong with that picture...they are animals--not a pharmacy. The same thing is being done with other types of food as well...and I am very uncomfortable with it. Science is a great thing, but sometimes you just have to know when to let things be...

  3. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Very true. I mean, what if one of those goat got loose and bred with others? Then some innocent person drinks that milk and dies from bleeding out since their blood wouldn't clot?
  4. Tog Lovers

    Tog Lovers New Member

    Oct 10, 2007
    Greensburg, PA
    I don't think there would be much of a risk of them getting out. We are talking gov and corp. $$$. Plenty for the best facilities. Personally I would rather have access to a more natural medicine than a chemical one. If we can find ways to eliminate the mixing of chemical compounds I think we can eliminate the risks of error in that mixing. There have been many mistakes lately that have resulted in death.
  5. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I, personally, would like more information on it, but from the little bit that I read, I don't see a huge issue with it. We have been using livestock for years to harvest the hormones for women during menopause and what not.

    But I would like more info on how this affects the animal itself.
  6. Amos

    Amos New Member

    Oct 2, 2008
    I don't really like the idea of it..

    There are already facilities that don't or won't get rid of their waste materials efficiantly.. Whats to say the droppings wouldn't have something wrong with it..? Or the meat? How would they get rid of an animal that died? Throw it in a field? And what if something ate that waste? What would happen to them..?

    Just a thought..
  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  8. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    I understand your concerns regarding this, but having had a little to do with this stuff (genetic engineering, not this particular issue) here are a couple of points just off the top of my head:

    Amos, I assure you these animals are tested for YEARS before they are allowed to be used and the product actually put onto the market, and yes that includes tests like whether these goats are excreting blood thinner or anti clotting agent or whatever in their faeces, and trust me all the regulations about disposal of faecal material, carcases, not to mention standard of living, facilities, and the list is ridiculously long, well lets just say sometimes you wonder why you are doing it.

    People are generally scared of genetic engineering and other things such as cloning because they get caught up in the hype without fully appreciating the benefits we can get - and dont think that it is an end-justifies-the-means deal because the animal welfare requirements for this type of thing are extensive.

    Here's a couple of examples for you:

    A Holstein bull was genetically modified quite a few years ago now, so that his daughters when they calved, produced human breast milk instead of cows milk, meaning that all those mothers who for some reason or another, do not want to breast feed, they will be able buy formula made from breast milk, leading to healthier babies all round.

    Did you know that using the cloning technology, you can actually have an infertile couple conceive a child that is 100% genetically theirs? In traditional cloning, the female egg is harvested and the DNA from the middle is sucked out, replaced with the DNA from the donor individual which you want to clone. But what you can actually do, is harvest the egg from the mum-to-be (I'm gonna call her Jill and her husband Jack. Jack and Jill cant have kids - lets say maybe Jack's swimmers are defective), so anyway, you harvest the egg from Jill, and you only suck out HALF of her DNA, then you take any cell from Jack's body, it can be a skin scraping or anything, you remove half of his DNA from the cell, and you inject it into the egg. The important thing to see here is that you are mixing both Jack and Jill's DNA, so the resultant baby is NOT a clone - it is a new individual just as if they conceived naturally, but this method lets them have their child without having to use sperm donors etc. If for example, Jill's eggs had something wrong physically with them, you could use a third donor's eggs, suck all the DNA out of it, and fill the egg with half Jack and half Jill, obtained from skin cells.

    So I'm sorry to go on and on here but the things we are discovering we can do with new genetic technologies has the potential to change so many lives for the better. We can give infertile couples their own genetic children. We can engineer livestock to make their food products healthier for consumers.

    And its only limited by your imagination, who knows where we will go next.
  9. Di

    Di Crazy Goat Lady

    Jan 29, 2008
    central PA
    Well, I think it's GREAT! Goats make another contribution to mankind! How great is that! Just imagine...a human mother lives to raise her child because of goats milk! Too cool IMO. :leap:
  10. PiccoloGoat

    PiccoloGoat goat girl x0x0

    Sep 10, 2008
    Next thing you know, keren, humans will be giving birth to animals. Lol.

    Wait that would be weird. Lol
  11. goatshows

    goatshows New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    yes i do think that this is not right but soon they are going to do it the opposite way to help people with bleeding poblem/genetic disorders like hemophilia or Glanzmanns thornbastemia. i agree they shouldent be doing it that way but it will lots of people down the road. when they do this it will stop hundreds of adults and children dying a year
  12. goathappy

    goathappy New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    I think its a good idea, I mean I think its better to have something somewhat natural like that to take as treatment rather than taking some prescription that has twenty different side-affects and may end up killing you anyway. JMO :)
  13. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    This would still have side effects because it is made from a goat. My understanding is that this drug will be given IV. Therefore it has non human markers on it and there is a higher chance for a nasty reaction to it.
  14. Pam B

    Pam B New Member

    Oct 15, 2007
    Southern Michigan
    Yes, and look how well that turned out - a huge increase in breast cancer in women who take hormone therapy. :sigh:
  15. goathappy

    goathappy New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    With the hormone therapy thing, a few years ago the guy who studied and endorsed the hormone therapy thing for women was arrested and put in prison for putting out false information. It was somebody he worked with that turned him in. Turns out he was saying all these good things about hormone therapy and he knew that it wasn't good for women but he kept saying it was so that he could get more government money to continue his studies.

    I could say a lot about genetically engineered things, but I don't want to fight about it.
  16. Amos

    Amos New Member

    Oct 2, 2008
    Ok Keren, sorry if I offended you. I'm sure thats great for some people, I just don't like the idea, I think animals were made the way they are for a reason, and I have my own standards for what animals should be subjected to. Don't get me wrong, I 'donated' rabbits to a lab that was testing for blood transfusions, their goal was to 'mutate' animal blood so that it would sucsessfully work in the human body, for things like blood shortages ect. My rabbits all died, and the company ended up scamming me out, so i guess i just haven't had the greatest expirience of it all. And because of that I have to think of those goats, and what they went and are going through.
  17. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Well, I think it's GREAT! Goats make another contribution to mankind! How great is that! Just imagine...a human mother lives to raise her child because of goats milk! Too cool IMO.

    I totally agree....I had a very lengthy reply to this but Di has said enough for me.

    Animals, treated humanely, will always be the source of the never ending contributions to mankind regardless of how our personal feelings are.

    Besides that, how many of you still encounter those that think of goats as those that don't contribute the way that cattle, sheep and fowl do? I do every day and it just ticks me off that the ignorant question a goats "worth"....this will prove that us goat lovers are right in more ways than one :)
  18. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Oh Amos, I wasnt offended and I hope I didnt offend anyone with my post. I was just trying to reassure you that there are ridiculously in depth welfare regulations for the animals as well as testing to ensure two things: that the product is safe for human use, and that the animals are properly cared for.

    I have a stack of paperwork that is like 6cm thick, which is all the ethics stuff for research on animals, for my honours project, and that is only a non-invasive project :shocked:
  19. Di

    Di Crazy Goat Lady

    Jan 29, 2008
    central PA
    I can't imagine that these goats are "suffering" in any way. Believe me I'm not saying that is right at all. They "do what they do" to the embryo...then implant it...that's done all the time in embryo transplantation. After that they are born, live, give birth, just like our goats. I'll bet those are pretty pampered goats!

    I guess I'm not paranoid about some things, but I am ordering some "hierloom" plant seed this year. I appreciate the need to make some foodstuffs "better", better keepers/transporters, prettier fruit, longer storage times, resistance to blight and pests. I understand that when you need to feed millions of people (and this country feeds people all over the world) you have to find ways to "improve" the harvest. I just think some of the "old time" varieties taste better.
  20. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    to quote the artical

    I see no animals were harmed in this study or in the making of the drug.

    I see it as another way for animals to give back to humans. If the goats were mutated or harmed in anyway I would be against it but they arent. They were given a gene and now they pass that gene onto their offspring who produce milk with the gene which will help people.

    Maybe we will get more people/vets/researchers interested in learning about goat health.

    If we want research and goat vets we need to be open to goats being more then just pets. how else do you think cattle get so much notice? there are many genetically engineerd cattle running around.

    Goats will never take over the milk or meat indistry. But maybe they can make their mark through stuff like this.