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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So as some of you may know, we have a Pygmy doe, Cleo, who had a C-Section , abortion, and got very sick in December. The vet who preformed the C-Section said that we shouldn't breed her again, while I different vet said we could, and another said she's not sure. A lot of people would say we could, but she tore her uterus up trying to deliver this HUUUGE kid. So we decided to be safe and follow the first vets advice.

Well. Nature didn't have the same plans. Cleo here appears bred. We don't know how far a long, we're guessing 2 months, maybe longer. Called the vet today to ask if we could buy some Lute. This vet said she's not sure, but she thinks it may not be safe to abort the kid(s) (which I don't want to do, but it's better than a dead doe I guess) at two months.

So I need your guys' opinions. Abort, or not?

I feel like I bad goat owner..
 

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Boers & Nubians
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You are in no way considered a bad goat owner; this was obviously an accident and you meant your doe no harm.

If I were in your situation, I might look into getting Cleo an ultrasound to confirm pregnancy and get a count on the kids. If she is pregnant and has, say twins or triplets, then it would be an easier birth than a big single.

How is her current health? Is she at a good weight? I would assume that her uterus is healed now, if her C-Section was a while back.

Now with luting her... I have no experience with lute, but if an experienced vet says it is risky then I am inclined to agree. But, having the doe keep the pregnancy is also risky.

If possible, an ultrasound would be a good first step.
 

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Agreed. Luteing her would be very risky at this point. I would ultrasound for pregnancy. You are 50/50 either way. Luteing her could potentially kill her as could carrying kids to term. I would honestly let her carry the kid(s) and watch her carefully when she is getting close.

You are in no way a bad goat owner. When those girls want to get bred....it is tough to stop them. I have a young, small doeling who will be delivering in a couple of weeks that I thought was waaaay to little to be bred. Did everything I knew to do to keep her away from my buck and she had other plans....the little hussy! :)
 

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I would say do the ultrasound and find out if she is for sure pregnant. I have no problem with Lutalyse. Even at 2 months the fetus are not big. But that is ultimately up to you. Scars don't stretch so there is a good chance she could tear again. I don't know how badly she was torn so that would definitely be a determining factor. I would discuss it further with your vet about the risks of aborting or leaving it go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
So far she looks at a good weight and in overall good health. I'll call the vet and see about and ultasound, and talk to my mom about this.

Thanks guys, you've been really helpful.

Edit- My mom is outside painting and when she's done she's going to look at next weeks calendar to see if we could take her into the vet.
I'll make sure to keep you guys updated.

Edit again- I almost think for her mental health, it would be good for her to have kids again. She LOVES being a mom and even though this kid was DOA in December, it really made her depressed. We just don't want to kill her..
 

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I feel like I bad goat owner..
Don't beat yourself up - life happens when you're making other plans. I remember Cleo and the problems she had, but this is not something that you allowed to happen or planned. Cut yourself some slack here, you can only do what you can do. I have no experience with lute, nor have I ever been in this position before so I will bow out of the discussion at this point and allow those with more experience in this area to assist you. Good luck, and I sincerely hope it works out for both you and Cleo. :)
 

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I agree with what has been said. I would do the ultra sound, if it is twins or more, I'd let her carry on. But if it is 1 single, it will most likely be giant again and I would lute her. I have had to lute several goats before, because of complications we caught early on.
At 2 months, they would be tiny, and very easy to pass.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So I'm going to call the vet tomorrow and see if we can make an apt. for Monday.

Little Bits, thank you. Along with everyone else.
 

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Best of luck Scottyhorse...all very sound advice ...might consider having her spade..take care of everything at once..:D

as for her lovingbeing a mom..get her a bottle baby to help you raise..:)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
When she had her C-Section, the vet offered to have her spade, but she was honest and said she had only read about it in a book once. Since she had ruptured her uterus, was bleeding and septic, we just wanted to save her.. She was very sick. Had to live in the house for 40 days with IV's, lot's of meds.

A bottle baby would be a great idea.. I think she would love that if we have to abort. She isn't dried up yet either :)
 

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I have had 2 does that had c-sections. Now, no rupture of her uterus...except that an incision would be stitched up in the same manner. The fact that she survived means everything is healed and probably working fine since she's pregnant again. I had a vet tell me that there was no reason she should have trouble the next time. A large single kid, usually means she was "overfed" during the 4th month of pregnancy...easily avoided...so make sure you cut the grain down soon. I agree I would probably want to have her ultra-sounded. Was she a ff when she had the c-section? Mine both were. Both of my does kidded without issues in subsequent years. Pepper now gives me quads! So, let's hope for multiples! And, good luck with your decision.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
When she was a FF, she had a single doe. Last year, she had two doelings. This year, she had the single kid. I will make sure she only gets hay and browse. I usually split 1 cup of grain between her, the kids, and the other two dry does to keep them busy while I am graining the nursing/milking doe. So I will keep up with that feeding.

Comparing her to the other unbred does, she is a little swollen back there. Not tight like the others.
 

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The giant single kids does have sometimes is not grain related or an over feeding issue. I have a doe, Gracie, who is out of triplets herself, but she has had 4 freshenings and has had a monster size kid every time. The last one, I could not for the life of me pull out, it was a gaint buckling, stuck at the nose. I had to have my brother in law pull him out, it took 10 minutes to pull him he was so stuck.

The doe Gracie NEVER gets grain while she is pregnant, just free choice hay, and still has moster babies.
My way of thinking is that is you have a smaller doe, she can still eat the same as a larger doe, but more of the nutrition is going to the baby because her body doesn't need all of it, thus causing huge babies.

I am tired of pulling Gracies kids, so this fall I am giving her hormones to make her have twins or triplets, which would be smaller and she would have an easier time having them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
So no grain then?
 

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I wouldn't. I actually don't give any grain until they have kidded.
The one year I did grain while they were pregnant (about 22 years ago), I had to pull every single kid, I had over 30 does back then, and every kid had to be pulled. I haven't grained while they were pregnant since and that cut back on that problem drastically.
I only had to pull 4 kids this year, Gracies monster, and Ginger's tangled triplets. But normally Gracie is the only one that needs help. I still have really good size kids with out grain

If I were to grain, I would only recommend graining in the first month to 2 months, stop after that, because after 2 months is when they start growing more, the 4th and 5th is when they start doubling and tripling in size.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Okay, no grain then. Anything else we should do? Even if the kid(s) end up coming out small, I'm absolutely fine with supplementing with a bottle. We just don't want her to tare.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
We're feeding grass hay, then they get pasture browse, weeds, bramble, etc.
 
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