Inbreeding/line breeding question

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by Perfect7, May 18, 2010.

  1. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    We are just getting started with boers and boer/kiko crosses. We plan to purchase a purebred buck in the next year (or two) but are staring with an 88% buck unrelated to any of our girls. How long can a buck be bred in a herd? I know he can be bred indefinitely to the initial does, but what about daughters and granddaughters? I hope I'm not offending anyone, I'm just wondering if people buy a new buck every year? Even if we had two bucks, sooner or later everybody is going to be related. Know what I mean? :?
    What happens with constant line breeding and how many generations are safe? Please forgive my ignorance. While we've always had animals, this is our first time ever breeding any. (And we'll only be breeding our does once a year in the fall, if that makes a difference). I'm thinking of registering our small herd with international pedigree so we can have ear tattoos for 4-h instead of scrapie tags that I hate, and don't want them looking cross eyed at us either if there is a father/daughter breeding next year :laugh:
     
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ

  3. OhCee

    OhCee Yak Lady

    609
    Feb 26, 2010
    Western MT
    Are there other Boer breeders in your area? Maybe you could work out lease/trade deals with them on bucks... I don't know if father/daughter would be good or bad- Someone else here must know more than I do on the subject. Good luck though :)
     
  4. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    Thank you both! I do have a friend with two boer bucks and we've discussed "loaning" our bucks to each other for a season for that purpose. I just think my buckling is pretty with all that color and would love to see some more black and white. I just don't want midget boers running around if that would be the end result of father/daughter or even granddaughter breeding. :p I also want to get our herd CAE and Johne's tested and keep a closed herd as much as we can...without owning a million bucks or spending a small fortune each year to buy a new one. Wait a minute, maybe I WOULD like to own a million bucks. :ROFL:
    And I printed that page, Stacey. That's going to take a bit of studying on my part. :)
     
  5. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I wouldnt do father daughter -- but you can do grandfather to granddaughter, its not really linebreeding but it can work out.
     
  6. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
  7. ohiogoatgirl

    ohiogoatgirl New Member

    771
    Jan 31, 2010
    ohio
    all the stuff i've read and heard says you cant breed a doe to her own sire and her kids back to thier sire/grandsire but after that dieseases and abnormalities are more and more likely.
     
  8. MiGoat

    MiGoat New Member

    304
    Apr 21, 2010
    West Michigan
    Am I understanding that article right in that what you really want to avoid is sister-brother breeding?
     
  9. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    That's what I got, at least for full siblings. It seemed that half sibling breedings were good?
     
  10. ohiogoatgirl

    ohiogoatgirl New Member

    771
    Jan 31, 2010
    ohio
    yes, the chances of mutations and abnormalities rises the closer you breed.
     
  11. mrs. lam

    mrs. lam New Member

    Apr 20, 2010
    Before we got Romeo wethered, he got out and knocked up his daughter. She had the prettiest little girl. (Fancy) Hubby says to think of it like this, "We do live in Alabama." :laugh:

    Gina
     
  12. OhCee

    OhCee Yak Lady

    609
    Feb 26, 2010
    Western MT
    :laugh: :ROFL: Nice!
     
  13. comingsummers

    comingsummers New Member

    335
    May 6, 2010
    Northern New Mexico
    Im going to add my inbreeding/line breeding question in here since this seems to be a good place... This fall I have to choose between two bucks to breed my does to. My older doe is not related to either so I will probably breed her to whichever I don't breed my young one to. However, my younger doe is related to both bucks on her sires side. One is her cousin and the other is her great uncle. Which one would you guys choose? They both are nice bucks with good bloodlines so that's not really a factor. Sorry to hijack the thread, I just thought it looked like the right place to ask and maybe it can help you too. Thanks!
     
  14. goathappy

    goathappy New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Illinois
    Its important to remember not to totally shun father/daughter, mother/son, and brother/sister breedings, because they do have their place, but it is important to remember that those breedings should only be planned if the genetics on both sides are very strong. Doing these breedings will accentuate good traits, and bad traits as well. Inbreeding/linebreeding has been used extensively in the past on new breeds like LaManchas to accentuate bad traits so that they could be bred out and good traits bred in. When it comes do doing breedings this close though, you'll be something either phenomenal......or you'll get crap. Its luck of the draw. I know a breeder, the last year she had goats out of curiosity because she had never done it before, she bred littermates, a full brother to a full sister. These animals were 4 years old, had proven themselves in the showring as well as their progeny, and they were out of the best doe she had ever bred. She breeding resulted in triplet does, and they were just absolutely gorgeous kids.

    Last year when I had my goats appraised, the appraiser(who used to own one of the most influential herds in the country) told me that you want to have a certain amount of inbreeding in your herd, because that is what keeps traits and qualities consistent in your herd. Having said that, pretty much all my goats are related in some way to each other, and when I breed I always linebreed on animals in their pedigree whose genetics cross well with each other(say if there's a particular buck that shows up in their pedigrees, that I know is good to linebreed on, I will)

    Its a personal choice though, whether to inbreed or not, and it also requires some knowledge of how the genetics in your herd work and cross with each other.
     
  15. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    Comingsummers, it's not a hijack! The more I can learn the better, and I appreciate it. We had gone to look at a boer buck (didn't get him because I felt better about starting out with a baby who didn't intimidate me yet), but he was getting rid of him because he had bred four generations straight to the whole herd. He told me the boers were getting smaller and smaller and smaller, so I didn't know if that was what really happened or he was feeding me a good line. :p
    And we're not too far from Alabama, either! In today's economy, we have to "make the most of our buck". :slapfloor:
     
  16. ohiogoatgirl

    ohiogoatgirl New Member

    771
    Jan 31, 2010
    ohio
    "make the most of out buck" ha ha ha!!!! :D
    around here we say "do you know why birds fly upside down across west virginia?.............ain't nothing worth pooping on" hee hee hee!!!!! we're all a bunch of hicks trying to downplay our own hick-ness. although some of us are super-hicks and dont even know it! lol! ;P
     
  17. MiGoat

    MiGoat New Member

    304
    Apr 21, 2010
    West Michigan
    That article said cousins were really good but I suppose great uncle would be good too. Truthfully I have no clue. LOL

    "Make the most of our buck" LOL
     
  18. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    I prefer to think of myself more as a redneck! It sounds much more sophisticated. :wink:
    For the great-uncle or cousin, I would probably figure out which buck has the same positive traits my doe has that I really wanted to pass on (a good thick rump, nice head) or find a fault my doe had that I wanted to breed out of the next generation and see which buck had that best feature. And if they were both the same...I'd go with whoever was closer!
     
  19. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    Couple yrs ago I leased a traditional Boer buck who was heavily linebred on both sides. He produced a beautiful daughter who has taken Reserve & 2nds whenever I've shown her.
    Though quite nice she isnt as heavy or meaty looking as I personally like in a Boer. But then again she is only a yr & a half old so that may change as she matures.