Info on CL from a VET lab! Updated see post #4

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by kelebek, Aug 6, 2008.

  1. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Ok - so I have been talking with WADDL and also with Hygieia Biological Lab (VET lab in CA) about CL, the prevailance in the area here, and also with vaccinating animals for CL as there is much controversy over using this vaccination or not. Hope this helps! (PS if you get a positive from a different lab that is not a VETERINARY LAB - hint hint - make sure you get a retest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can not stress this enough!)
    This is what I learned from WADDL -

    - CL is showing more and more - could be because more people are testing.
    - CL CAN be transfered from any mammal - to include horses (pidgeon fever)
    - CL can cause coughing if the abcesses are in the lungs. If you have an animal that has not been tested for CL and is coughing and there is no others with respitory infections - QUARENTINE immediately and test for CL
    - alot of times animals will be CL positive but will NEVER show an abcess on the outside.
    - wet times of the year help prohibit the spread (keeps dust from flying) so dry times more infection is seen.
    - You CAN vaccinate and tell the difference, however you must run bloodwork prior to vaccinating at least once, but prefer twice (4 weeks apart) and then vaccinate. That way they will be able to see the titer differences in the vaccine.

    WADDL suggests culling if you are truely concerned about CL spreading to meat and milk animals. If they are pets and you are willing to accept the responsibility of the abcesses then you can keep them.

    IF you have CL in your herd, you have two options in regards to vaccinating the uninfected herd. If the abcesses are in the lungs they suggest having a vaccine made specifically for that strain since it is rare - otherwise you can use the broad spectrum CL vaccine, but make sure you let buyers know that they have been vaccinated and where the original blood draw is to compare titers. You will need the "insides" of the abcess.

    The Hygieia Biological Lab makes CL vaccines and they are able to make them for anywhere inside the United States - here is some information that they sent me.

    Corynebacteria Summary:

    Corynebacteria pseudotuberculosis lives in the soil for long periods of time. It needs to find a portal of entry to the skin and mucous membranes. It spreads through the lymphatic system. The bacteria can be picked up orally, through head or leg wounds, or lambs and kids born in contaminated surroundings can become infected through their mouth or umbilicus. Shearing and milking equipment can cause small cuts that allow bacteria an inlet.

    Corynebacteria most commonly causes diseases of the respiratory and digestive tracts. But corynebacteria causes both internal and external abscesses in goats, sheep, and dairy cows. In goats and cows the external abscesses have soft greenish pus, and in sheep the abscesses have thick white pus.

    Internal lesions cause chronic weight loss, dyspnea (difficulty breathing), tachypnea (rapid breathing), and a chronic cough (if in the lungs), and if the occur in the liver they can cause liver failure. This is the same for the other major organs. The lungs are the most often infected of internal organs.

    In milking animals corynebacteria can cause mastitis, and in extreme cases can destroy the teats and halves of the udder. At this time, there is no known satisfactory antibiotic therapy for corynebacterial mastitis.

    The effectiveness of antibiotics in treating internal abscesses is controversial, since it is not possible to always get adequate amounts of the antibiotic through the abscess wall or capsule. External abscesses can be lanced, drained, and flushed with betadine solutions. The external abscess may recur depending upon the amount of capsule development around the abscess and the degree of drainage. Lesions frequently recur because of incomplete drainage.

    Corynebacteria is an intracellular parasite in the nodal tissue. As the abscess develops it is thought to release exotoxin which may aid in the development of disease by contributing to inflammation, pain, and edema. The intracellular hiding place of corynebacteria makes it difficult for the immune system and can limit the effectiveness of vaccines.

    In the past, some autogenous vaccines (both bacterins and bacterin-toxoids) have been reported to produce local granulomas and pain at the injection site and pyrexia (fever) in inoculated animals. Toxoids have generally been reported to give good protection. Australia’s vaccine (a bacterin-toxoid) is accepted as a control measure now, but it is unavailable in the USA. Hygieia has developed the technology to produce a custom bacterin-toxoid using bacterial isolates taken from affected animals on the farm, dairy or ranch.

    Due to USDA regulations, Hygieia is only able to store corynebacteria isolates for 18 months. If you plan on using a vaccine produced by us for a longer period of time, please call Hygieia to discuss what your future options may be.
  2. alyssa_romine

    alyssa_romine Breaking Dawn Ranch

    Oct 4, 2007
    Re: Info on CL from a VET lab!

    Thanks for the info.

  3. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: Info on CL from a VET lab! did your research...Thanks for sharing :thumb:
  4. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Re: Info on CL from a VET lab!

    I am by no means done - but I think this is becoming a "pet project". To many people do not know about this disease and the effects that it is having in the goat world. A lady came out to the ranch on Sunday to purchase Cotton (she also decided the next day to take Rock also) and she was telling me that she owns a petting zoo and she saw a sign for Pygmy kids - so she stopped and purchased one here locally. A little while later - CL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    People are breeding and selling kids KNOWING that the animal has CL even if signs are not shown. Now if the buyer knows and is ok with it - cool - but there are to many people that don't even know about CL.

    In my area - I had a vet come to the ranch (very good friend of mine) and she pushed and pushed about CAE but NOTHING else - and I have learned about CL, Johnnes, and all kinds of different things with goats.

    I just want people to know that this is all over and just because you don't see it - or a single test comes back negative, you need to test and then retest in 4 weeks to be sure before putting them in the herd!

    Please look at credentials of a diagnostic lab and also ask others what they think of that lab. There has been HUGE contreversy over a lab that was mentioned a while back on here! Just FYI - the State Lab is not happy and has had many complaints on "this lab" that is not a recognized diagnostic lab!!
  5. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    I have been asked to post the name of the lab that I suggest double checking results with.

    The lab is Pan American Vet Lab. Now by no means am I saying anything negative, but there are some things at this point in time that are not making sense to me and I am having confirmed.

    Because of some discrepencies I started looking around and talking to people and after talking with the staff at WADDL I decided to use the Washington State Veterinary Lab. Even if you are out of state, the cost is within a dollar or so of the above mentioned lab HOWEVER - it is a veterinarian that is working with the samples, reading the results, and they actually call you and talk to you about the results, what they mean, what the best course of action is - and you can call the vet at ANYTIME with questions. They are so nice and are great help. I have spent 2 days talking back and forth with one vet to the point where he gave me his direct phone number and wants me to call him when the other vet calls me with the results (he is not on the diagnostic floor this week) as he is curious due to what we have talked about. You do not get this kind of knowledge and expertise at the above mentioned - and for only a couple dollars more! Another cool thing is that you use their Fed Ex account to mail the samples to them and you receive their discounted rate on shipping. It is super cheap and they just include the shipping on your bill that they send you :leap: so no upfront costs except to pack the box!

    Also, a friend gave me a link to another goat forum that I had never heard of and when looking around - there were many posts where people had lab tests run that came back incorrect (Positives that were negatives and vice versa).

    When I mentioned to the vet at WADDL what my concern was and was asking questions, he confered with a Serologist and a Bacteriologist at WADDL and they asked him specifically if he was refering to said lab. So I and a few others definately are not the firsts to contact them with concerns.

    Of course if there are differences in the lab work - I will talk to the said lab and tell Bob my concerns - as I said - I am not "bad mouthing" but just want to express my concern.

    I personally will spend the extra 20 dollars to send to WADDL!!!