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Is a $200k budget good and drylot questions

3K views 43 replies 14 participants last post by  AlabamaGirl 
#1 ·
My start up budget right now is $200,000, last week it was half that.
QUESTION: Is 50 sqft. per animal good enough? 25 sqft. of barn space and 25 sqft. of outside space? They will only be in here during the months grass doesn't grow to give my pasture a rest and for them to empty out their worm load.

$20,000 on breeding stock (including imported genetics)

$130,000 on fencing (50 acres)

$10,000 on a barn

$1,000 on drylot fencing

$200 on drylot bedding (some type of grit or gravel)

$800 on a trough feeder and hay holder

$5,000 on milking supplies/machines

$2,000 on various health and medical supplies

$2,000 on dispatch and processing equipment

$5,000 on product makers (pasteurizer, cheese maker, meat curer, meat grinder)

The rest of the money is undecided, is my budget too small or too big? Any recommendations or comments?
 
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#2 ·
I would start out much smaller. I think 25 sq. feet per animal is overtaxing. Goats need room to roam, not space stress. If you are looking at an intensive dairy operation, reach out to producers who are doing this. Goddard farms is one I can think of off the bat. You will also need a lot of storage space for milk/ meat/ - containers, a license which can be costly - and lots of grain for those milkers, which is not in your budget. Also disease testing - at least for CAE and G6S if nubian or nubian cross. A barn of $10,000 doesn't get you much anymore. You need kidding space, buck space, does in milk space, milking space, hay storage etc. I'm not sure how many animals you plan to keep, but if you've never had goats - take it SLOW. Milkers are labor intensive - I hope you have lots of free labor. Also think of waste disposal, if you need a backhoe or manure spreader, etc. Depending on the number you plan to keep - you may need it. IDK about your medical supply budget - you didn't mention how many animals this is supposed to cover. Also , if you get into AI, CIDR's, recip does etc. that is added cost.
 
#3 ·
25 sq. feet is only 5x5 feet per animal. This isn't nearly enough and will lead to disease, parasite, and hoof problems. If you have 50 acres to work with then you should plan to devote a lot more than 25 sq. feet per animal in your loafing/barn/wintering area. My PolyDomes are 7 feet in diameter, giving them a square footage of almost 40 feet. I often see 2-5 goats bedded down in each PolyDome during bad weather, but they're not confined to them and there's a whole big area for them to run around in when they're not resting. The little pens at shows are 6x6 feet (36 sq. feet) and are too small to keep goats in for more than a weekend. I see a lot more bullying and fights over food when goats are confined to small spaces. Small pens are great for kidding, confining sick goats, etc. but they shouldn't be used as long-term living quarters even in winter. You'll create a lot more work for yourself too since mucking out becomes very important and very labor intensive when animals are confined. Good luck!
 
#5 ·
$10,000 on a barn
I think it depends on the type of barn you want. Sure, possible for a carport barn. A real barn is more.

But how many goats are you looking to get? If you've got 50 acres, you surely can give each goat more than 25 sq ft - there is 43,000 sq ft in 1 acre alone.

I recommend at least 500sqft outdoor space per goat, and at least 30-50sqft of indoor space per goat.
 
#7 ·
I plan on having 20-30 goats and sheep, and thanks for telling me this, I looked up how many sqft. does each goat need and all the articles said 15-25 sqft. I thought 50 sqft. was generous! Do you have a better estimate for a barn price wise? I'm still looking and it'd help to have a more accurate estimate.
 
#6 ·
How many goats do you plan to have? Also, if you are doing dairy, factor in the price of lambars, kidding supplies, a trailer for necessary emergency vet, vet calls (you will have them). Your first step is to find out what you need to do to get your dairy license (can be $10000) or more depending on your state, what the requirements for your milking room and milk testing are, and who your potential customers will be. If you haven't had many dairy animals, the work and costs can pile up exponentially. If you are counting on kid sales for some of your profit - know that even will stellar bloodlines, you won't get the prices that top breeders demand - that takes building a herd name through milk testing (more $$), shows ( alot more $$), and many years in the business to build a good name for yourself.
 
#9 ·
This is just the budget for my initial investment. I don't plan on making money through kid sales alone, I plan on having a side business as well. I have a long term goal as well, so I am looking forward to the competitions, appraisals and milk tests too. I plan to start with 20-30 goats/sheep initially and grow from there, and when I finally manage to get the conformation and production I want, I'll downsize a bit to have a more manageable herd.

Do you plan on housing them all together? Do you plan to have separate buck space, kidding space, hay space, a grain room, a milking parlor? Are you breeding both species? Do you expect them to be in the pen 24/7? These are all things you need to look at before deciding on the size of barn. Also, barns with a finished loft and/or pens are more expensive. There are a lot of website that will quote a price for a pole barn, but that's not finished out and does NOT include electric or water which is an absolute necessity. If you are looking at a few years out - add some $$ - everything is higher later on.
In winter everyone will be housed together because that's when I'll be breeding. By the time they start kidding everyone will be back on pasture (I'm planning on letting them kid in pasture, but they have access to the barn if they want to in there) and the boys will be on their own pasture. Good thing you mentioned electricity because I totally forgot about that, and I was planning on toting water up to the barn, but that probably won't work out. But, I'm not finished with my plans and budget, and since I am a few years out I'll adjust it for inflation.
 
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#8 ·
Do you plan on housing them all together? Do you plan to have separate buck space, kidding space, hay space, a grain room, a milking parlor? Are you breeding both species? Do you expect them to be in the pen 24/7? These are all things you need to look at before deciding on the size of barn. Also, barns with a finished loft and/or pens are more expensive. There are a lot of website that will quote a price for a pole barn, but that's not finished out and does NOT include electric or water which is an absolute necessity. If you are looking at a few years out - add some $$ - everything is higher later on.
 
#10 ·
Are you going to be Grade A? If so..contact your local Grade A office to find out the qualifications needed. A friend is doing a grade A cheese dairy and there are ALOT of rules and $$$.
 
#12 ·
I’m curious, do you own any goats now?

Jumping in with 20-30 is quite a lot. I see that you are 16, so I’m not sure where you’ve gotten the $200k, but I hope you know the time involved is quite a lot, and you may want to start with 10 and test the waters.

Also, running sheep and goats together is not easy. They have very different needs.

If you want bucks you’ll need two barns, keep that in mind.

Let me know the kind of barn you want for an estimate.
 
#13 ·
I'm curious, do you own any goats now?

Jumping in with 20-30 is quite a lot. I see that you are 16, so I'm not sure where you've gotten the $200k, but I hope you know the time involved is quite a lot, and you may want to start with 10 and test the waters.

Also, running sheep and goats together is not easy. They have very different needs.

If you want bucks you'll need two barns, keep that in mind.

Let me know the kind of barn you want for an estimate.
I don't own goats anymore, we had to sell them earlier this year. So in a few years I'm hoping to start again. I came up with $200,000 based on the rough estimates I've gotten from browsing through different websites, but it is a very rough estimate and I'm actually editing it right now trying to see if I need to make the budget bigger, especially when I'm finding out that getting dairy certification may cost $10,000. If that's the case I'm definitely staring out with ten or so.

How much would a barn like this cost?
Sky Cloud Window Building Natural environment

if you can see the fencing towards the left, that would be my drylot. The ground would be barren and the space would be much larger and they would have basically 24/7 access as long as it isn't rainy
 
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#17 ·
You may want to start on a smaller scale, then plan on keeping within your herd... You also need to figure in the time that it’s going to take to do hoof care for all of them, how the barn is going to be mucked out etc... Are you going to need a tractor? I’ve figured out throughout the years, that feed/hay prices fluctuate greatly... Around here that barn would be around 50 k maybe even more... I think planning smaller, then growing slowly would work better than jumping in with everything first..
 
#18 ·
You may want to start on a smaller scale, then plan on keeping within your herd... You also need to figure in the time that it's going to take to do hoof care for all of them, how the barn is going to be mucked out etc... Are you going to need a tractor? I've figured out throughout the years, that feed/hay prices fluctuate greatly... Around here that barn would be around 50 k maybe even more... I think planning smaller, then growing slowly would work better than jumping in with everything first..
Yeah, it'd probably be wiser to start of smaller and just retain stock.
 
#19 ·
If you use intensive rotational grazing your 50 acres will hold near 400 head of stock. in Alabama if you work it right you will not have to corral them.
your fence cost are real low. with fences you can build them right or rebuild them again and again.
right now i am building fence on 30 acres dividing it in to seven 4 acre paddocks. My cost is near $55,000,00
 
#24 ·
Since this is all hypothetical and "someday in the future," something to think about would be buying a place that is already largely set up the way you want. Even if you had to improve the fencing or redesign the barn, that would be a heck of a lot cheaper than building from scratch. When you're ready to start thinking about launching out on your own, look around the country for property you can afford. I'm often astounded at how cheap property is out east compared to here in Colorado! Heck, even within a single state there are places that are super cheap compared to others. I got lucky and found an undiscovered corner of Colorado where I could afford to buy a gorgeous house and property for 1/3 the price it would have been in most of the state. Now my area is discovered, but places come in and out of fashion over the years and sometimes the bottom falls out of an area because a factory or mine closes (or in our case where a land scam from the 1970's tainted the area's reputation for over 30 years!).

One of the smartest things my husband and I did was we took a couple of years to tour the west before we owned anything. We packed up our camping gear and went on a series of road trips through various states we thought we'd like to live in. We narrowed it down to Colorado and then toured this state, picking up real estate brochures in every area that piqued our interest. When we got home we poured over the different prices for comparable real estate and eliminated a lot of areas right off the bat. It was a lot of fun and set us up for success in the long run. If I'd just been going for "cheap" I would not have chosen this state. I would have spent my time looking east of the Mississippi. However, "cheap" wasn't our highest criteria. Public land access was. Figure out what's most important to you and then go from there.
 
#25 ·
Since this is all hypothetical and "someday in the future," something to think about would be buying a place that is already largely set up the way you want. Even if you had to improve the fencing or redesign the barn, that would be a heck of a lot cheaper than building from scratch. When you're ready to start thinking about launching out on your own, look around the country for property you can afford. I'm often astounded at how cheap property is out east compared to here in Colorado! Heck, even within a single state there are places that are super cheap compared to others. I got lucky and found an undiscovered corner of Colorado where I could afford to buy a gorgeous house and property for 1/3 the price it would have been in most of the state. Now my area is discovered, but places come in and out of fashion over the years and sometimes the bottom falls out of an area because a factory or mine closes (or in our case where a land scam from the 1970's tainted the area's reputation for over 30 years!).

One of the smartest things my husband and I did was we took a couple of years to tour the west before we owned anything. We packed up our camping gear and went on a series of road trips through various states we thought we'd like to live in. We narrowed it down to Colorado and then toured this state, picking up real estate brochures in every area that piqued our interest. When we got home we poured over the different prices for comparable real estate and eliminated a lot of areas right off the bat. It was a lot of fun and set us up for success in the long run. If I'd just been going for "cheap" I would not have chosen this state. I would have spent my time looking east of the Mississippi. However, "cheap" wasn't our highest criteria. Public land access was. Figure out what's most important to you and then go from there.
Thank you, I use to want things for cheap but I'm starting to figure out it's going to cost be quite a bit if I want a sturdy farm.
Errm, no, 10k gets you about this: View attachment 191847
That teeny thing?!
 
#29 ·
You may spend less time in class, but I can promise you that compared to college, high school is a breeze. While, yes, most of the work is done outside of class, it is a blessing and a curse... especially if you have another job or are in any clubs on top of that. I recommend waiting until you’re a semester or two in and have a job, so you can see if the workload is too much.
 
#33 ·
I have been teaching biology to college freshmen for 32 years, and we have a farm with boer goats, so I know a little about the time required for both activities. If you want to do college well, don't plan to start a dairy goat operation while you are doing that, especially if you also have to work off the farm to pay bills, etc. We obviously don't milk our goats, but I know people who have dairy goats and it is a full time job in itself. Also, talk with lots of people in the business so you have a good idea of what is involved. It won't answer all your questions because actually raising goats is different than just having information. We bought an old cow dairy farm and didn't start goats for several years. We started with a few goats and talked with everyone I met who raised them. I also read everything I could, and joined this group where there is alot of experienced folks willing to share information. We try to plan kidding in Dec and Jan between semesters so it doesn't conflict too much with the college work. I have lots of support from family and friends when I need extra strength managing the bucks, hoof trimming, barn repair, etc. Start small, small, small because you can quickly get overextended especially with college work.
 
#36 ·
I won't be starting a large dairy operation, just a hobby one and I'll grow it to no more than 10 animals because of my property size and until I finally get my MD and have my own property.
It will definitely depend on your major! [emoji4]
Hopefully!
My first bit of advice would be to find a good mentor! I have connected with a couple of goat people in my state, now, and they are generally quite excited to help out a younger person who's getting started in goats.
I have had goats for about two and a half years now, and this was my first year with kidding and milking. It was a lot, even though I was only milking two does! There's just so much maintenance that goes into taking care of a milk goat, and then you have to think about the proper handling and storage of the milk, plus all of the work that goes into marketing and selling your product. I'm so glad that I started small, otherwise I think I would have gotten burnt out really fast!
Even if you have an amazing mentor, you still have to develop an eye for things that may be going wrong with your goats, and head them off before they become a big problem. Nobody else can do that for you. I don't know what you're playing to study in college, but I can tell you, college can be very intense! I made the choice to skip college, since I did not need to go to college to learn any of the things that I wanted to learn, but several of my close friends did go, and I got to be there for all of the stressed-out conversations. I'm not saying that to discourage you, but I definitely agree with those who are encouraging you to get your feet wet in college before you try to start dairy goats. I am working a part-time job in a town near me, on top of doing my goats, and a small business out of my house, and most days, I feel like I'm running around like a chicken with its head cut off. I don't actually know how many hours a day I work, but it's quite a few! And when you're the one who's solely responsible for your goats, you have to figure out ways to deal with emergencies, birthing, etc, on top of getting to work on time or showing up for class at the right time. It's definitely worth the struggle, but I am currently actively seeking a job that will give me more flexible hours, so I can be there for my goats a bit more. There have been multiple occasions, now, when I have had to call in late for work, or leave my goats in a situation I wasn't 100% comfortable with, simply because my animals do not understand schedules, and will not confine their births or catastrophes to non-working hours. :D
That being said, it's very exciting that you want to do this! And The Goat Spot is definitely the right place to come for advice! But again, I would definitely encourage you to try to find a goat mentor; someone who is doing what you want to do, and best case scenario, lives close enough to wherever you end up starting your goat venture that he / she can come over and help you out with the hands-on stuff when you need it.
I'll definitely want to find a mentor when I start my farm again, my hobby farm will probably be me just milking goats and making treats for myself and my family. Nothing too-too major, and I'm DEFINITELY going to keep it relatively slow because after college I still have 8 more years of education before I can finally start actually working.
I would keep making plans, but do nothing until you are working and in school. My kids did both, and it's a lot to keep up with by itself. They had no time for anything else. Keep planning, find great dairy producers, and study hard.
I'm going to keep planning until I can balance out my schedule with all I plan to do!
 
#34 ·
My first bit of advice would be to find a good mentor! I have connected with a couple of goat people in my state, now, and they are generally quite excited to help out a younger person who's getting started in goats.
I have had goats for about two and a half years now, and this was my first year with kidding and milking. It was a lot, even though I was only milking two does! There's just so much maintenance that goes into taking care of a milk goat, and then you have to think about the proper handling and storage of the milk, plus all of the work that goes into marketing and selling your product. I'm so glad that I started small, otherwise I think I would have gotten burnt out really fast!
Even if you have an amazing mentor, you still have to develop an eye for things that may be going wrong with your goats, and head them off before they become a big problem. Nobody else can do that for you. I don't know what you're playing to study in college, but I can tell you, college can be very intense! I made the choice to skip college, since I did not need to go to college to learn any of the things that I wanted to learn, but several of my close friends did go, and I got to be there for all of the stressed-out conversations. I'm not saying that to discourage you, but I definitely agree with those who are encouraging you to get your feet wet in college before you try to start dairy goats. I am working a part-time job in a town near me, on top of doing my goats, and a small business out of my house, and most days, I feel like I'm running around like a chicken with its head cut off. I don't actually know how many hours a day I work, but it's quite a few! And when you're the one who's solely responsible for your goats, you have to figure out ways to deal with emergencies, birthing, etc, on top of getting to work on time or showing up for class at the right time. It's definitely worth the struggle, but I am currently actively seeking a job that will give me more flexible hours, so I can be there for my goats a bit more. There have been multiple occasions, now, when I have had to call in late for work, or leave my goats in a situation I wasn't 100% comfortable with, simply because my animals do not understand schedules, and will not confine their births or catastrophes to non-working hours. :D
That being said, it's very exciting that you want to do this! And The Goat Spot is definitely the right place to come for advice! But again, I would definitely encourage you to try to find a goat mentor; someone who is doing what you want to do, and best case scenario, lives close enough to wherever you end up starting your goat venture that he / she can come over and help you out with the hands-on stuff when you need it.
 
#37 ·
Think about why you even want to go to college. College is super expensive. If mine hadn't been completely paid for by my grandparents it would have been a huge, regrettable mistake setting me up for long-term debt and financial difficulty with limited career choices as a result. If you go to college, make sure you have a specific purpose for going and a very detailed plan on exactly how to pay for it.

You may do well to go to a few specific classes at an ag school but skip the degree. You can learn things about business and financial planning, marketing, genetics, and all kinds of other things that are very important for running a farm business. If you go to classes targeted specifically toward your eventual goals you could get much of the benefit of college without so much time and expense wasted on a degree that includes a lot of stuff you'll never use. I mean, racquetball was fun and all, but those college credits cost money and time that have served me no purpose in the 20 years since I took it, and my calculus classes were a total waste of time. In fact, I could list a lot of courses I took that were a total waste of time (and money!). I think a lot of people who go for a college degree would tell you the same thing. The time and money you spend on a degree sure cuts into the time and money you have to launch into business!
 
#39 ·
I told my daughter when she was in college that college is a full time job- whether on or off campus. Then her job was full time and then she added a boyfriend. They talked about marriage. I asked how could she do 3 full time jobs and still sleep? (spouses require a lot of work!). So she gave up the idea of marriage until after college.. oh, and he dumped her and she was super happy to find out there were many other good men out there that shared her passions in life!

The only reason I bring this up is, probably at some point- you may meet a potential love interest. (what is the appropriate term?) and then your goals may change. But, if you are set on a goal, unless harmful, don't let anyone derail you. If someone really cares about and for you, they will aid you and not play the "if you really love (like) me you wouldn't do that.... Strive for whatever you think will bring you success and contentment in your life!
 
#40 ·
I told my daughter when she was in college that college is a full time job- whether on or off campus. Then her job was full time and then she added a boyfriend. They talked about marriage. I asked how could she do 3 full time jobs and still sleep? (spouses require a lot of work!). So she gave up the idea of marriage until after college.. oh, and he dumped her and she was super happy to find out there were many other good men out there that shared her passions in life!

The only reason I bring this up is, probably at some point- you may meet a potential love interest. (what is the appropriate term?) and then your goals may change. But, if you are set on a goal, unless harmful, don't let anyone derail you. If someone really cares about and for you, they will aid you and not play the "if you really love (like) me you wouldn't do that.... Strive for whatever you think will bring you success and contentment in your life!
Thank you! Hopefully, if I ever get a boyfriend in college he'll be more than happy to join me in my hobby!
 
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#41 ·
I have to say that despite the fact that there is a lot of great guidance and recommendations on here .... way to go for planning and doing your due diligence by asking all of these questions and sharing your plan with us! I commend you! I only hope that my kids get passionate about something during high school to put pen to paper and start asking questions to try and make their dream come true. Bravo =)
 
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