It's way too cold... losing babies...

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by Lexibot, Nov 27, 2010.

  1. Lexibot

    Lexibot New Member

    326
    Jul 27, 2010
    Missouri
    It got cold here. It went from 60 degree nights to 20-30 degrees... Now I am starting to lose the babies.

    I lost 3 so far, and 2 are pretty weak. We're not going to spoil them to a great degree, otherwise if they make it, we'll have to baby them all the time. But 5 seem to be doing okay to great.

    Anything I should give the weaker ones? They show no signs of worms, but one that died had white gums/eye lids... would worms kill a baby that fast??? He was only 5 weeks old...I was waiting until all the babies were a month old before I started worming.

    I put 6 in my feed barn with a good layer of straw and 2 older goats, but one woke up and wasn't able to use his front legs, he wasn't cold, he was in the middle of the group.

    There's only so much I can do for them. I have the 2 weaker ones in my house right now though.

    So what would be your advice?
     
  2. Lexibot

    Lexibot New Member

    326
    Jul 27, 2010
    Missouri
    Now the baby that woke up and couldn't use his legs is all "better". Looks like nothing is wrong....**scratches head*.
     

  3. FunnyRiverFarm

    FunnyRiverFarm New Member

    Sep 13, 2008
    Hudson, MI
    There is something else going on...cold does not kill goats like that--even young ones. Could be a parasite problem or could be mineral deficiencies...something is making them weak. I would have fecal tests run by a vet...may give some clues to what you're dealing with.

    We have the same fluctuating temps here...went from 60's to 20's and will be back to almost 50 by monday...but I have never had any of the problems you're describing...even in very young kids.
     
  4. Lexibot

    Lexibot New Member

    326
    Jul 27, 2010
    Missouri
    OKay, that's what we're thinking. We found Lice on them the other day, was able to dust them just yesterday (as that's when the weather allowed us to do it) Could the lice cause this?

    The older goats have lice too, everyone of them seems fine.

    Also, for minerals what would I give to them since most of them don't eat grain much?
     
  5. FunnyRiverFarm

    FunnyRiverFarm New Member

    Sep 13, 2008
    Hudson, MI
    I would not think lice could cause this much trouble.

    I hope you can figure out what's going on before any more die. It's so hard to loose them...especially when you don't know why :(
     
  6. Lexibot

    Lexibot New Member

    326
    Jul 27, 2010
    Missouri
    Yah... and being how they are bottle babies.. it's harder to lose.
     
  7. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA
    Lice will ABSOLUTELY kill goats.... I know a lady who bought a doe (bred) that ended up having lice..... the kids were born (triplets) and all 3 kids died within the first 48 hours of birth. She figured out the problem was lice.... treated it but still lost the doe that week. Mind you....this doe looked relatively healthy to the naked eye. Lice is definitely a killer. I personally would use something stronger than a dust if you are already losing goats. Ivomec injection (inject it) AND some pour on eprinex. :( Don't forget the red cell as they are probably pretty anemic.

    Lice is one of those things that is very common..... but if not caught immediately can lead to tradgedy.

    I would still have a fecal run on one or 2 kids as well....just to make sure they don't have worms as well.

    I'm sorry you are losing babies. :( Hopefully you figure out whats wrong so you don't lose anymore! :hug:
     
  8. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    If they are weak...I would put a heat lamp out for them....put it where they can move away...from it... if they get to warm.... you can also... put sweaters on them... until you can figure out the problem..... Give nutra drench ..... this will give them energy.... appetite ....do this daily.....

    If the kids are 5 weeks old.... I would get a fecal done..... for worms and cocci....right away ...so you can take the guess work out of what is going on.....
    and know what to treat for....

    Treat the for lice with the strongest you can give for the kids of that age.... ...put DE on their bedding...

    How much are you feeding them? how often....
    Are their bellies full?

    Are you creep feeding them...start them on some cob with molasses or regular cob... just a little....also start them on... a little leafy Alfalfa.... they should have it free choice.... :hug:
     
  9. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA

    I feed Sweelix meat maker loose minerals (I leave it in a bowl in the barn so they have 24/7 access to it but it stays out of the rain/snow)...and I add BOSS to their feed...if you don't feed grain you can just throw a cup of BOSS in with their minerals.
     
  10. Lexibot

    Lexibot New Member

    326
    Jul 27, 2010
    Missouri
    Thanks for the info guys :)

    They are getting 2 bottles and 24/hr access to hay/water, which they seem to be loving, they don't hardly look hungry until I phyiscally go out there each bottle session. I decided to ggive hem a small amount in the middle of the day for extra energy.

    I know it isn't a food thing though, cause I just started the 2x a day from 3x.
     
  11. Bellafire Farm

    Bellafire Farm New Member

    810
    Jan 5, 2010
    NW Oregon
    Bottle babies...Weak...tired... not being able to use front legs... and age of about 5 weeks... all leads me to consider Coccidia in addition to the consideration of Lice. I have seen Coccidia in very young (3 wks +) babies that had those same symptoms. ANY diarhea at all in anyone? Even loose stools? Have they been treated with any Coccidia treatment yet?

    Also selenium/Vit.E (BoSe) deficiency comes to mind. Have they had any BoSe/Selenium since birth? Did the momma's have a BoSe shot during pregnancy or prior to kidding? Did momma have access to free choice minerals during entire pregnancy?

    As to Lice, I haven't (BIG knock on wood!) had any lice issues here, but know others that have and apparently there are two kinds of lice...blood sucking lice & biting lice. (So I've been told). If there is a blood sucking lice then I would certainly think it could be the demise of a baby.

    As to the cold....my twin Nigerians were born about a week ago, then we had almost a week of very cold 18 degree nights here with snow & ice storm (instant drop down from mid30's-mid40's nights)...the momma and babies are in a 3-sided lean-to, no barn or actual stall (momma is VERY clostrophobic so insisted on staying put), but the lean-to is totally waterproof/windproof & solid. They have a single heat lamp above their corner 3x3 kidding pen... and they are VERY active, bouncy, happy babies. No issues with the cold at all.
     
  12. Lexibot

    Lexibot New Member

    326
    Jul 27, 2010
    Missouri
    They have not had Selenium/Vit E supplements since I got them, as for their parents I don't know, probably not... I went to order Dimethox last time I had this issue and it was back ordered... never could get it...

    Here's what we could think of went on in the last couple days:

    10 goats, all around 30 days old and doing well, eating like hogs only issue they had lice.

    First hard cold snap (17 f) 4 went down, 1 was DOA, one was thought to be dead but found to be alive the other 2 down but alive and 2 others showed signs of weakness but lived fine. 2 of the 3 that died in the end so far bounced back enough to walk, hop and eat but later that day died.

    The last one has been up and down over the coarse of 2 days. She takes her bottle and sometimes is up walking talking then sometimes just crashes paddling her legs while on her side acting like she is trying to get up but cant. Just today her poop turned to scours then later in the day was pasty. The other 6 babies are fine. Her eyelids are nice and pink, her mouth has been cold, breathing is labored over the last 2 days even when she is up walking, wants constant attention from us or she flops more. She had massive drainage from her nose and a cough yesterday but that seems to have cleared. She is still able to suck on the bottle and her appetite seems not bad, not 100% but still aggressively eating. Her weakness seems to be more from the front legs not the rear she seems to get her butt up far easier than her front normally resting her shoulders on the ground head flopping upward, although as I type this she seems unable to do this even.

    Ideas anyone, pretty sure she is lost but trying anything at this point.

    Have to wait until tomorrow to try and order the cocci things, and Penicillin, I gave her a dose of Selenium/Vitamin E gel, been treating for scours, and a daily dose of LA 200. Things I have had only on hand at the exact moment.
     
  13. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    most feed stores carry Corrid or Dimethox for cocci treatment.

    Lice makes the animal enimic - meaning low iron - meaning low red blood cells - which means inability to fight infection as well.

    So with the cold temps, compromised immune system, and then not getting proper nutriotional absorption - that is where the issue seems to be.

    nutri drench, yogurt / probiotics, corrid / dimethox, and gastri calm. Along with heat lights / coats and warm water - they should pull through.
     
  14. Lexibot

    Lexibot New Member

    326
    Jul 27, 2010
    Missouri
    Thanks a lot :)

    Anything at home that I can sub for the Nutri Drench? At least until I can buy some.
     
  15. Lexibot

    Lexibot New Member

    326
    Jul 27, 2010
    Missouri
    One thing we have noticed after she sleeps for a while she seems to wake up with a lot better level of energy, We woke her up a bit ago to giver her some iron and some honey and 4oz of milk and she was slow getting up but then was up walked around, took her outside to use the restroom and she is chasing me for a bottle around the house tail a wagging. You can see she is weak but like she recieved a life injection compared to hours ago. This has been the pattern, if she sleeps a good sleep she wakes up pretty fired up.
     
  16. Lexibot

    Lexibot New Member

    326
    Jul 27, 2010
    Missouri
    OKay, having 2 now, one is the weak one we've been housing inside, another one is one of the healthy ones. They both will only eat about 2-3 ounces at a time, and seem to have difficult times with swallowing.

    Is this a symptom of anything? They seem hungry, but simply ignore it after a few ounces.. I am reading Pneumonia (had meds sent out today). This sound accurate? Could it be something else?
     
  17. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    I am so sorry you are losing your kids, there are so many things that come to mind with all the symptoms you are describing...pneumonia is one, another is that this could be parasites. You mentioned that these kids are 5 weeks old...and getting 2 bottles each per day? How much is in the bottles and what? Replacer, goat milk, cow milk? I know with mini kids , when bottle feeding they should get 3, 6 oz bottles a day PLUS hay and creep feed and water available. What breed are these kids?
     
  18. Lexibot

    Lexibot New Member

    326
    Jul 27, 2010
    Missouri
    They were getting 3 8 ounce bottles daily with hay/water/grain. They are "brush goats" Spanish, Boer, probably kiko ect. 1/3 whole milk 2/3 replacer.

    Wednesday I reduced the bottles to 2, because they were eating so well, thought I would see how it went. Now that they are sick though, been giving them 1 8 ounce bottle at 6am, a 4 ounce at 11am, and 8 ounce at 4pm, the healthy ones seem well on this, especially since they are eating hay and grain better and better everyday.

    None of them seemed EXTREMELY hungry afer this change and didn't cry at 11am (which is the time I took that 3rd one away) unless they seen me out there which they did this any time of the day.
     
  19. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    I am so sorry, I really don't have any advice. But I wonder, could this be some kind of silent pnemonia? I thought I read someone else having issues a while back, and it was a silent type of pnemonia that killed several of their goats? I don't know how these sicknesses work, but if it happened right after a cold snap.

    I hope you are able to figure this out. Have you talked to a vet, or tried to take them in and get some tests done?
     
  20. Lexibot

    Lexibot New Member

    326
    Jul 27, 2010
    Missouri
    I don;t have a vet, the vets here don't know much about anything, especially goats. :( And anyway, these are farm goats, not show or anything, I would hate to take one to the vet, pay $100, and just have them tell me they don't know what the problem is. And it's not just that, I can't even afford it. I have a dog (who's a pet) that needs a vet visit before this, and I simply just can't do it.

    I have tried everything I can do, I lost one last night, and today I will probably lose another. I have just decided I will lose them all in time...

    There's nothing more I CAN do for them other than wait to bury them :(

    It's been really hard on us, nothing like working with something for 3 days to just have it die anyway... it's very frustrating, and I am going nuts over it. I just wish they could go now instead of making the process longer on us all.

    I do know one thing though, if I know of anyone starting up goat farming, I know a complete list of what they should get ahead of time. Because if I personally knew everything that was needed, I would probably not be having such a problem. The experience is hard, but perhaps it can be avoided next time.

    At least the babies were in my hands and not someone else's, I at least care about them, I know a lot of people in this area that wouldn't do anything for them... I am sure they had a decent short life with me. I enjoyed them at least.