Ivomec, or Ivomec Plus?

Discussion in 'Parasites' started by agilitymaster01, Sep 13, 2014.

  1. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    There is only a couple of dollar difference between these two. Does anyone have a preference, and why? (if you can) I need to purchase new wormer, and there are so many choices. Thanks:whatgoat:
     

  2. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    If you are going to use it, may as well use the one that gives you the most bang for your buck. Some people say yes and some people say no to using the Plus on pregnant goats.
     
  3. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Ivomec plus isn't safe for preggo goats especially in their first trimester. Because of that warning, I will not use it at all during pregnancy.

    The only thing extra the ivomec plus treats for is liver flukes. If you have a pond, you will most likely need it. Other than that, regular Ivomec is the same thing, except for killing liver flukes.
     
  4. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    I have one goat that we gave wormer, because she was lethargic, her eyelids were pale, she was getting skinny, had a cough, and runny nose. (sign or worms?) I gave her some back up wormer that happened to expire last year I saw after I gave it to her. (this was about 2 weeks ago) I got some new stuff, and she didn't really show many signs of improvement. She is a little better, but still kind of pale. Is it safe to give her some of the new stuff? She is a small kinder maybe weighing 25lbs. and less than a year old. Let me know ASAP if you can. Thanks!
     
  5. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    She needs red cell it is a horse product. It is 6cc per 100lbs, so it is probably about 1.5 cc's for her, if I am figuring it right. It is better to under dose red cell than to overdose, it can be toxic if given too much. Give it for 1 week, then once a week thereafter.
    However, check her coloring daily, if her color is beginning to change to a pinker color, stop the red cell and monitor her for a while.

    A fecal would be best to know what to treat for. I would get it for cocci and worms in case. We can't just keep worming her not knowing what it is or if the wormer used worked or not. When worming a very bad worm load, we worm, then again 10 days later and again 10 days later. So it is 3x every 10 days. Was this done?
    Make sure it is at least 10 days after her last worming for fecal testing.

    Coughing could be lungworms, but she has a runny nose, so it may be a cold or pneumonia from being weak.
    Get a temp on her too.

    Does she have lice?

    The wormer may or might not have the right potency to do the job being expired a year.
     
  6. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    No lice. I keep trying toget a sample from her to do a fecal but she is my shy pooper. She will not poop in front of me for some reason. I was reading on another post on here about worms. One of the worms symptoms fit her to a tee that is why I went for treating her for worms. Then I realized the wormer was expired and went out and bought a new bottle of ivormec. I will try really hard to get a fecal on her tonight and I will get her temp. She seems to be doing better (eating more and more active) but not back to herself.

    I didn't know about the treating 3x (every 10days). I want to learn as much on this as I can. So you worm, 10 days do a fecal, worm again, wait 10 days do another fecal and worm. Correct?
     
  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I am very glad to teach, so if you have any questions, just ask. Good people want to learn. ;)

    A fecal should be done after your worming regimen is finished, so the wormer has a chance to work. No, you do not need to fecal every 10 days. The 1st fecal will let you know where you are and if the wormer is working or not. Then you can recheck at a later time to make sure she is OK. I would however get a sample in now in case we are treating for the wrong worm or she may have cocci as well. So she can be treated as soon as possible if needed. Poor baby.

    Good there is no lice, that is a plus.

    Get the red cell if she is anemic, we need to re-build her blood, but we also need that fecal to make sure the cause is under control.

    There is a way to get a fecal sample sooner, get a new rubber glove, and gently go in the rectum for it, put it in a baggy, I know, it is gross but it gets the deed done.

    Now, if you haven't seen her poo, do you see any on the ground at all where she has been? If not, she may need an enema, she may be plugged or wasn't eating enough for it to go through. So if you don't get any out if you glove up, the feed hasn't gone through her system yet especially if she is not eating much.

    A day or two after worming, give her ruminant probiotics and fortified vit B complex SQ, it is dosed at 6cc per 100 lbs, worming can take thiamine from them. The B vit will also help with appetite, plus help build her blood.

    How is her rumen (left side) any gut sounds or movement?

    Feed her some Alfalfa hay if possible just a little if she is not use to it..

    I really recommend getting the fecal as soon as possible, so we know how she is and if she has anything more giving her issues.

    When we worm, we follow up 10 days later, 3 x if they are anemic, the again 1 month later 1x only.

    Good luck.
     
  8. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    You are amazing!!! Thanks for all the advice. I did a fecal tonight and gave 1.5cc red cell. And also gave 1cc ivormec (the new stuff). I found what looked to be two different kinds of eggs. Barbpole and liver fluke? I will post two if the best shots I could get. The eggs look extremely similar. Her temp was a little low, but not out of the ordinary. It was colder here today and she was standing in the shade with the other 2 Kinders. The look on her face says why are we out here, but you can tell she doesn't want to be by herself. Poor girly girl.
     
  9. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    One egg
     

    Attached Files:

  10. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    Another kind of egg?
     

    Attached Files:

  11. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    Sorry, it is incredibly hard to photograph what you are looking at.
     
  12. happybleats

    happybleats Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    I use Ivomec plus even in my pregant does...however any worming can be stressful on a doe..especially pregnant...its not my practice to worm them when bred..but sometimes the need is there...only valbazen and Ivomec plus kill liver fluke..as you said the eggs look very close and can be mistaken for eachother...I rather worm with a wormer to get both then risk the goat...Valabzen can not be used on pregnant doe safely but Ivomec plus can..I know many think its not safe...I have used it for 9 years with no problem...the PLUS in ivomec plus is Clorsulon, proven safe for pregant animals..here are a few links to read on this...

    http://www.elephantcare.org/Drugs/clorsulo.htm
    http://www.vkvboers.com/Goat_Med_Doses.pdf
    http://fiascofarm.com/goats/wormers.htm#ivomec
    The acitve ingrediant in Valbazen which makes it unsafe for pregant does is Albendazole...
    I hope this gives you enough information to make a choice best for your herd...
    If you choose to give Ivomec plus...dose is 1 cc per 40# sub q OR 1 cc per 33# orally...I only inject...but oral is fine if the goat is not heavy loaded...

    Best wishes
     
  13. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Now that we know what kind of worm types we are dealing with. I agree, Ivomec plus or Valbezen do kill those types of worms.
    I definitely would not use Valbezen on her.

    I am one that is afraid to give Ivomec Plus to preggo's, especially early term, how far along is she?
    Of course we need to help the Doe to.

    Cathy( Happybleats) has used it on preggo's, not sure if it was early term or later, but she swears by it. I never tried it because of the early warning.
    So I can't honestly give the advice to use it. Use your best judgment.

    You did good by what you have done so far, but now, we may want to get the Ivomec plus, if you feel comfortable with that. Of course, we do need to get her better.
     
  14. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    This one is not bred. She is not a year yet. I am not sure where thinking she was bred came from, but it is helpful to know not to use ivormec plus on bred does. ;)

    I gave her ivormec last night as that is what I purchased for another doe, and what I had on hand. I will get some ivormec plus and give it to her in 10 days. That would be her second dose for wormer (unless you count the expired stuff from 2 weeks ago).

    Thanks for all the assistance!!! You guys are the best!
     
  15. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    The plain Ivomec won't kill the worms indicated. So it has to be Ivomec Plus to kill them, this sadly means, you have to start over again and treat her as if she has never been treated before. :( But at least it should take care of the issue at hand.

    I would go ahead and give her the Ivomec plus now, as some do worm for 3 days in a row, with no ill effect.
    I don't recommend it myself. But do as we metioned, 3x 10 days apart orally, 1 cc per 33 lbs.
     
  16. agilitymaster01

    agilitymaster01 Rose Creek Acres

    376
    Sep 25, 2013
    La Crescent, MN
    I am slapping myself in the head for worming before I did the fecal. UGH!!!!! So dumb on my part. :(
     
  17. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    We all have to learn, it is OK. Don't sweat it. ;)
     
  18. Goatmaaa-

    Goatmaaa- New Member

    17
    Sep 7, 2014
    Arizona
    I have a couple of questions... are you suggesting to use the Ivomec Plus 3 days in a row, followed by 10 days off and again another 3 days in a row? Or is it just 1x every 10 days.

    Also, how do we do fecals ourselves? I thought they had to be sent out to a lab.

    Thank you!
     
  19. happybleats

    happybleats Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    No, not 3 days in a row...treat once...then in ten days treat again..then in 10 days treat a third time....then in 30 days after that last dose..treat once more time..for a total of four times...

    you can do fecals by purchaseing a microscope...it does not have to be expensive...make an epsom salt solution and go for it...learn the eggs what they look like and how to count them..Im a bit talker here lol..but Im just learning too...here is a good resource on how to get going
    http://fiascofarm.com/goats/fecals.htm