The Goat Spot Forum banner
21 - 40 of 167 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,606 Posts
Just a thought and I’m sorry if it makes you have more to think about and stress over :( what about instead of sending in the blood since the blood test is not all that accurate you start to gather poop from the other herd mates and send them in to get that show on the road since it takes so long to get the results back? At least then if she comes back negative you will know for sure what everyone is at and you won’t have to stress over this again. Or if it does come back positive it will help you decide what to do with the rest.
I’m just thinking here. I’m sure it will all depend on what you decide should happen IF she does come back positive. If you think you Will sell everyone I guess you probably don’t want to put the money into everyone being tested.
I’ll tell you what though, after this I am going to take the whole “tested negative for johnes” with a grain of salt!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,230 Posts
Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Alright, the vet visit is complete. We decided to submit a fecal sample to WADDL (laboratory in Washington) for both fecal analysis for parasites and a PCR Johne's test. The PCR is supposed to be as accurate as the culture but takes less than a week!

After reviewing my records with the vet and the herd history in general - he was still optimistic that it was not Johne's. I countered that no goat scours THIS long with parasites and is still alive. We're going on 3.5 weeks of scouring. He rated her body condition score at 2.5

We did note that I was pretty far behind on my mineral supplementation and perhaps that is allowing a parasite bloom. She got Replamin Plus, MultiMin90, copper bolus, and injectable A,D, & E today while we had her caught.

Him and his tech that travels with him even used their trimmers to shave up her entire back end which was so nice of them, I'm sure she feels better.

Headed to the Post Office to mail the sample in an hour! Should have results early next week.
My credit card hurts right now ($200 vet visit, plus another $95 to WADDL) but I need to have the answer and this was the best way to get it.
 

·
Member
Joined
·
8,386 Posts
It won't do a bit of good to tell you to not worry, but, try not to dwell on it too much. There isn't anything you can do, to change whatever outcome is going to happen. That said, it sure sounds like you have some hope. And that is better than none. We are all crossing our fingers and toes that you get a really good answer!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,230 Posts
Discussion Starter · #28 ·
E. coli could scour that long. I know. :poop::poop::poop::(
I know and the one thing I did forget to discuss with the vet was bacterial causes! I did already try Scourcheck red piglet liquid on her several days in a row but the dosing was estimated and maybe not enough days.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,834 Posts
This may sound dumb, but I don't think it can hurt at this point... My go-to now is calf scour pills. Since I lost most of my (expensive) buck herd to an undiagnosed E. Coli infection, I won't be without them.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,606 Posts
Salmanilla is another one that can cause scours for a long time as well. I also had a doe that scoured for at least 2 months and nothing was helping her and she was wasting away. I went to cull her and my friend who bought 2 of her doelings and loved her kids wanted to try and fix her. I gave her to her and she never got better and passed. Her husband brought up johnes so she sent her in for a necropsy. It was cancer. I know that doesn’t make you feel better for this girl but I think there is a good amount of other reasons she might be like this. Fingers still crossed for you though!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,230 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Thanks guys! Neither of those came up with the vet. Good brainstorming here.

I'll go ahead and find the calf scour boluses, never used them before but it can't possibly hurt her at this point. I'll have to check if they are okay for pregnancy. She is likely a month along and although it may be unlikely to be successful with her current state, I'd hate to cause an issue if she does end up kidding.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
609 Posts
Sad to hear of this situation you are having. Hope for the best. Have you tired Batryl for the scours ? It works wonders on calves and I have given it to my goats with great results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,230 Posts
Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Sad to hear of this situation you are having. Hope for the best. Have you tired Batryl for the scours ? It works wonders on calves and I have given it to my goats with great results.
Looking it up now! Never heard of using Baytril for scours but I see it's an antimicrobial!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
It might not help, but I did have two goats scour this spring for more than two months. No others in the herd were affected. After two failed courses of antibiotics and a lot of me freaking out (my poor vet!), I had a fecal done. It was E. Coli. So, it’s possible, and I hope it’s something as easily fixable for you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
623 Posts
I just wanted to say, I sure hope your test results come back negative!! & I can't imagine the courage it took to post here. You are the kind of person I wish to purchase from, and wished I had always purchased from.

I whole-heartedly endorse the path you ended up taking, with both the blood and fecal results. To my understanding if the blood test ends up positive, then it's generally positive; the downside of the blood test is that it does miss some earlier positives (meaning some of the negatives are false negatives)- thus the value in the fecal, the gold standard. The fecal takes so, so long because the causative agent of Johnes' is tiny- so tiny it can cross the blood-brain barrier- and grows very, very slowly (it's one of the mycobacteria; their reproductive divisions are usually measured in days, as opposed to minutes). This is also why it's a latent disease for years & years before it causes any problems. I'm not an expert, but from my understanding, even having a three year old (remember, infected in kidhood) with symptoms would be rare, with greater age at onset of symptoms being more typical.

Did your vet test at all for giardia? That's another culprit that typically won't respond to antibiotics or most wormers, and will cause diarrhea & loss of condition for an extended period of time, again often without killing the poor goat. That's also the kind of thing that most of your herd might be exposed to, but most not ever develop any symptoms. I know I've read about another protozoal cause of chronic diarrhea that I'm forgetting ATM, besides giardia... but that's at least one other possibility to run down outside of Johnes'.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
I had a Nigerian with scour for months. $500+ in vet bills and testing with no results. I had the emaciated goat put to sleep. She would eat drink and run with the herd. I remembered feeding beet pulp a week before she started scouring.
A few weeks later I had another goat have very similar symptoms. I ran a feeding tube down his throat and dislodged a densely packed hay ball that was obstructing his esophagus. He had choke. He was getting up in age and was having teeth issues so he
couldn't chew well. He started getting soaked pellets and no hay. He recovered just fine.
I am
tentative to post this but my friends herd went down hard with excessive digestive issues when a cell tower was placed over their sleeping area. Hopefully that would not be a problem for yours.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
I really appreciate all the support and also the wishes for a negative results
More best wishes from me! ! Waiting to hear how this all comes out for you.

I live in WA and have used WADDL annually for "small ruminant biosecurity screening" (CAE, Johne's, and CL). I have had what is (I think) an unusual test result. I have one fat 9 year old wether who was born and raised with my other goats. He has never had any symptoms, but his Johne's blood test has always been "suspect" or a weak positive. When I have sent in his fecal test on multiple occasions, it has always been negative. I understand that sometimes a goat who does have Johne's can have a negative fecal test result if they are not currently "shedding" the microbes. For followup, I also had blood and fecal testing done at a lab that specializes in Johne's:
University of Wisconsin-Madison
School of Veterinary Medicine
2015 Linden Dr., Rm 4230
Madison WI 53706-1102
Telephone: 608-263-6920
We got the same results from that lab, as well. The WADDL veterinarian kindly replied to my questions, and offered his strong opinion that my goat does NOT have Johne's. I did have a local vet once tell me that sometimes if a kid is exposed to the feces of a certain sort of pigeon that has a particular infection, they can show up as positive on a Johne's blood test. (The place where my wether was born and raised did have a LOT of bird feeders and hundreds of daily avian visitors to them!)

I know that won't help your poor, beautiful, scouring doe, but maybe this info will be helpful to someone else who has Johne's concerns.
Bamboola
 
21 - 40 of 167 Posts
Top