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Goatless goat momma
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So I've been wanting to do his for a while, but haven't had a chance to get some good pictures of my goats.

Please keep in mind these guys aren't for showing. I just am curious on how good/bad their overall structure is from a judge's eye.

I have no clue what mix of breed they are - the lady we got them from gets full breed bucks whatever she can get either on island or brings them in from I don't know where. So if you want to take a stab at their breed mix, be my guest!!

1. Missy - she's just over a year old. Hoping to breed her later in the year so comments on what I should look for in a boyfriend would be great too. Thinking of breeding her to the bucking.

2. Buttercup - FF, freshened Apr 19. That's her udder at 12 hour fill. She gives just over a quart a day.

3. Buddy - just over 8 week old buckling.


Thank you!!!
 

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of the three i like the white one. they appear to be alpine mixes, possibly with nigerian. the two white ones may need some extra groceries. the black one seems to have a decent front end but her rump is really sloping. her udder is well attached in the rear. if you can get a good nigerian mini alpine buck thats what i would use . i know your gene pool is limited due to your location, so look around and find the best that's available. if you can find one that walks uphill, you will be on the right track
 

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Okay, wild guesses here: I think the yearling looks mostly Togg, but maybe mixed with Nubian? because of her ears, though that could just be the angle. Maybe Alpine as well.
Buttercup to me looks like an Alpine/Nubian with maybe a little Togg.
And the buckling looks very Saanen to me- maybe his dad was a purebred? Since you said the laky uses purebred bucks when she can.
These are just guesses; I'm interested to see what others think.
They're all cute- i like Buttercup the best. :)
 

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Goatless goat momma
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Discussion Starter #4
thanks enchantedgoats. Nigerian? i don't think there are any Nigerians on the island....

question - what do you mean by "walks uphill"?
 

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As you know I'm no expert, but I'll give it a shot. :)

Missy
Strengths: Strong pasterns, nice rear leg angulation, stands on nice hooves, fair length.

Areas for improvement: Brisket lacks depth, could use more depth but it isn't terrible, topline looks a little weak in the chine and seems to roach up in the back, steep rump, and her feet seem to toe out a bit.

In general she seems like a very sturdy girl.

Buttercup
Strengths: Neck blends fairly smoothly at the shoulder, awesome depth of body, strong pasterns, excellent rear leg angulation, hooves seem tight and straight, nice width between the hocks and hips.

Room for improvement: Short body, weak in chine, steep rump, brisket.
As far as her udder goes, it's got okay attachments and capacity, but could use more, and more rear and fore udder attachments and blending of the fore. Medial isn't bad, isn't great. She doesn't have any serious faults IMO.

All around I like this doe, she's got a very functional and sturdy look to her.

Buddy
Strengths: Excellent topline, very nice length of body, nice rump, stands on very sturdy legs that are strong in the pastern and with knees that don't buck, excellent rear leg angulation.

Areas to improve on: Brisket, depth of body, his back feet seem to toe out a bit, and if I want to be picky his rump could be flatter.

Overall I really like this buckling.

Hope this helped you some...I judged these sort of loosely keeping in mind they weren't for show, although the show animals are supposed to present the picture of funcionality...they seem like very sturdy goats. Conformation aside I think they're adorable. :)
 

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not stupid question...i was wondering the same thing!! lol
Preeeeety sure I know:)
If you know where the loin is, it's just before that.
There's the head/neck ill use H
The shoulders Ill use S
___ for the chine
FFF for extra room on the back.
-_-_-_-_ for loin

And DD for hips.
Oh and zz for tail.
Let's see if I can diagram this!!:p
(Ignore the periods, the letters won't stay in place. )

H
..H
...H
......SSFFF____-_-_-_-_-_DD
.............................................Z
................................................Z

Hope that makes sense:)
 

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Hey you saw how dumb I looked on that other thread haha so don't be. I used to think the loin was the booby looking things in the front of the goat, and that the brisket was it's armpit.
 

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Goatless goat momma
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Discussion Starter #13
emilieanne, i loved your diagram. i wasn't sure where you were going with the symbols until i saw the final product! :D

thank you all for your thoughts! i'm still learning with this conformation stuff with goats (they're all just cute to me), so i'm glad to know what i'll be looking at when i get home tonight!
 

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As you know I'm no expert, but I'll give it a shot. :)

Missy
Strengths: Strong pasterns, nice rear leg angulation, stands on nice hooves, fair length.

Areas for improvement: Brisket lacks depth, could use more depth but it isn't terrible, topline looks a little weak in the chine and seems to roach up in the back, steep rump, and her feet seem to toe out a bit.

In general she seems like a very sturdy girl.

Buttercup
Strengths: Neck blends fairly smoothly at the shoulder, awesome depth of body, strong pasterns, excellent rear leg angulation, hooves seem tight and straight, nice width between the hocks and hips.

Room for improvement: Short body, weak in chine, steep rump, brisket.
As far as her udder goes, it's got okay attachments and capacity, but could use more, and more rear and fore udder attachments and blending of the fore. Medial isn't bad, isn't great. She doesn't have any serious faults IMO.

All around I like this doe, she's got a very functional and sturdy look to her.

Buddy
Strengths: Excellent topline, very nice length of body, nice rump, stands on very sturdy legs that are strong in the pastern and with knees that don't buck, excellent rear leg angulation.

Areas to improve on: Brisket, depth of body, his back feet seem to toe out a bit, and if I want to be picky his rump could be flatter.

Overall I really like this buckling.

Hope this helped you some...I judged these sort of loosely keeping in mind they weren't for show, although the show animals are supposed to present the picture of funcionality...they seem like very sturdy goats. Conformation aside I think they're adorable. :)
Curious; You did an excelent job for still learning all this.

Nchen7; Even though these goats aren't for show, I can point out everything that was look over or missed, if you want.
 

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Goatless goat momma
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Discussion Starter #15
Nchen7; Even though these goats aren't for show, I can point out everything that was look over or missed, if you want.
Yes please Lil Bits! I've been following your critiques and I'm learning so much! I'm really new at goats and seeing which goat is well put together, so I'd love to hear what you think of my goats!!
 

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Missy,
Cons:
Steep rump
Looks to have a bit too much angulation in the rear legs
Looks to toe out
Hips are higher than withers
Lack of brisket
Looks to be weak in the chine
And the sternum/chest floor and rib cage does not blend smoothly

Pros:
Long neck
Strong pasturns
Fair amount of body length, but could use more
Fair depth, but could use more

Buttercup
Cons:
Hips higher than withers, causing her topline to go upward as it gets to the rump, the opposite that you want, missy's is the same way
Steep rump
Lack of brisket
Bit of a short neck
Bit short bodied, lacking length

Pros:
Nice depth
Strong shoulders
Good pasturns
Good front legs
Rear legs have a nice angle

For her udder:
The fore udder attachment needs more strength, and it could blend smoother
She needs stronger rear attachments and higher and tighter in the escutcheon
She needs a deeper medial susensory ligament, it should be to where it clearly defines the halves of the udder
The teats could be more defined and more separated from the udder
The teats wing out a bit, and need to be more centered
She could use a more capacious udder

Overall, not that bad.

Buddy
Cons:
Needs more brisket
Has a bit of a steep rump
Needs a longer neck
Could use a bit more upwards topline (the topline could use more slope downward to the rump)
Needs more body length

Pros:
Good pasturns
Fair topline
Nice rear leg angle
Good shoulders

For now, look for a buck with a level topline, length and a good rump. I doubt you could find the best buck of all time back there, but work your way up with level toplines, length and level rumps. That will imrove the kids a LOT. And if you can add to that buck, by finding one from good udders, that will be great.
 

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Goatless goat momma
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Discussion Starter #17
Thank you everyone for your critiques! much appreciated!

so overall, your opinions are that breeding Buddy to Missy will exacerbate the cons?
 

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Care giver of 4 milkers, one doeling, and One beau
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Missy,
Cons:
Steep rump
Looks to have a bit too much angulation in the rear legs
Looks to toe out
Hips are higher than withers
Lack of brisket
Looks to be weak in the chine
And the sternum/chest floor and rib cage does not blend smoothly

Pros:
Long neck
Strong pasturns
Fair amount of body length, but could use more
Fair depth, but could use more

Buttercup
Cons:
Hips higher than withers, causing her topline to go upward as it gets to the rump, the opposite that you want, missy's is the same way
Steep rump
Lack of brisket
Bit of a short neck
Bit short bodied, lacking length

Pros:
Nice depth
Strong shoulders
Good pasturns
Good front legs
Rear legs have a nice angle

For her udder:
The fore udder attachment needs more strength, and it could blend smoother
She needs stronger rear attachments and higher and tighter in the escutcheon
She needs a deeper medial susensory ligament, it should be to where it clearly defines the halves of the udder
The teats could be more defined and more separated from the udder
The teats wing out a bit, and need to be more centered
She could use a more capacious udder

Overall, not that bad.

Buddy
Cons:
Needs more brisket
Has a bit of a steep rump
Needs a longer neck
Could use a bit more upwards topline (the topline could use more slope downward to the rump)
Needs more body length

Pros:
Good pasturns
Fair topline
Nice rear leg angle
Good shoulders

For now, look for a buck with a level topline, length and a good rump. I doubt you could find the best buck of all time back there, but work your way up with level toplines, length and level rumps. That will imrove the kids a LOT. And if you can add to that buck, by finding one from good udders, that will be great.
MY GOODNESS! How are you supposed to improve your goats if there is that much wrong with them! :eek: I certainly don't want to put my goats up for evaluation.
 

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Boers & Nubians
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Curious to the rescue. Lol
I feel dumb now. Shoulda just looked up a actual picture!:p
I actually quite liked yours! I would have never gotten original like that... :eek: I'm always just like- Here's a picture. Here's a link. Here's something that someone else already put work into... ;)
 

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MY GOODNESS! How are you supposed to improve your goats if there is that much wrong with them! :eek: I certainly don't want to put my goats up for evaluation.
Haha, these thing is this can ALL be fixed with a good correct buck. The kids will come out much, much, much, better, and then breed the doe kids to a nice buck again, and you have nice goats. Keep doing that, and you get great goats.

And yes I think breeding Buddy to Missy will give the kids the same con traits, and that makes it harder to breed out. The more cons you breed together, it's like breeding them for those cons, the next generation fixates on them.

BUT Buddy has a straighter topline than Missy, so it will give the kids a better topline, and better rear legs, so thats a bit of a +
 
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