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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First is Danielle French Alpine, 1/8 Toggenburg- 5 years old
the first pics in front of the red barn were taken about 4 hours before we usually milk- the last two of her udder (side and back) were taken right before we milked her.
I know she has a weak chine, a steep rump and her udder is not attached well at all. (oh, and yes, she is just a little lopsided- not sure, but I think she's just that way- we've always been very careful not to let it get overful on one side) and perhaps her medial is too defined?
Other than that, I think she seems decent, if not very good as a dairy goat, but I'm happy to learn! That's kind of why I'm doing this. :)

Next is Jacqueline, PB French Alpine- 5 years old (They had the same sire, and were actually born the same day. :) )
Now I think J's back arches a little where it shoudn't,
also I think her neck could be a bit longer
Her rump is steep as well, but not as much as Danielle
I think she could use a bit more brisket and a bit more depth
I probably got everything wrong, I'm just testing myself . :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
And Suzi, five year old American Alpine (I think)
She definitely need more brisket, and maybe a longer neck
other than that, I don't really know.:D You tell me!
I couldn't get any of them to pose correctly, sorry! They are not show goats. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Oh, and of course Cinderella, my sweet Nigerian doe. :lovey:
As well as Alan Breck - Nigerian buck -Ella's bred to him, so I'm wondering if they are a good match conformation-wise?
I know he's not set up right and doesn't have a haircut, but he's shy and hard to catch. ;)

Oh, I should add, I don't know Ella's due date (I bought her bred), but I don't think she's more than a month away from kidding, so that may alter her appearance somewhat. :)

Edit: I totally forgot to say that Ella's 6 years old, and has had kids several times before, don't know how many. And Breck's just over a year, and has sired kids already.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
And last but not least, Storm Cloud, registered French Alpine, around 3 months old.
I was wondering if he's a good match for the first two does I posted, since we will most likely breed him to them in the fall.
 

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Looking at your Nigis, and not going on analysis but on intuition--Cinderella is a good, tough little goat and will get the goat job done. I like her, regardless of whether her conformation is "correct". The gent she's bred to is, in my opinion, a far better choice than Storm Cloud. And he's handsome!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Looking at your Nigis, and not going on analysis but on intuition--Cinderella is a good, tough little goat and will get the goat job done. I like her, regardless of whether her conformation is "correct". The gent she's bred to is, in my opinion, a far better choice than Storm Cloud. And he's handsome!
Yeah, I agree totally, but I'm very prejudiced, lol!
In what way do you think the Nigerian buck is better than the alpine, if you don't mind me asking?
 

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Well, Sarah.... I guess I will judge them for you, lol :p the nationals are really fuzzing out on my computer and the kindle wont even show the flipping ring, just the audio plays, so whatever with that! It's ok, I don't like LaMancha's that much anyways, I was just watching it to see my friend, lol

I do agree and disagree with some of your critiques of your does.

For Danellie,
Cons:
Steep rump
Spine rises slightly as it reaches the hips
Neck could be longer
Neck could blend better into the brisket
Needs more body length
Chest floor needs a tad bit more blending into the rib cage/barrel
Posty rear legs
Minor toe out

Pros:
Good body depth
Femininity
Very wide in the escutcheon
Nice brisket
Good chine
Neck blends well into the withers
Strong pasturns
Nice front end assembly
Nice hip width
Nice pin bone width
Strong shoulders

For her udder:

Fore udder needs to be more tightly attached
Teat placement needs to be more centered
Rear udder attachments could be higher and tighter
Side attachments could be tighter and smoother
Udder is a bit lopsided
Medial is a bit too deep, but not that bad
Udder is nice and capacious
Needs more udder depth
Teats are nice and defined from the udder
Teats could be more plumb in size
Udder appears smooth with a nice texture
Does not seem to have any extra teats, or lumps, no sign of udder damage.

For Jacqueline,
Cons:
Steep rump
Borderline posty in the rear legs (also you set them back too far in the first one, I'm going by her natural stance)
Needs more brisket
Chest floor needs to blend a bit better into the rib cage/barrel
Definately needs more depth
Hips are a bit too wide
Pins are a bit too narrow
Minor toe out
Brisket could blend better into the neck
Needs a longer neck

Pros:
Nice body length
Strong pasturns
Neck blends nicely into the withers
She has a bit of a slope (very slight though)
Femininity
Fits breed standard

For her udder

Really needs more udder depth
Needs to be more capacious
Rear udder attachments need to be higher and tighter
Teats need to be more centered (and the right teats looks more forward set...)
Medial is good
Fore udder needs to be tighter attached and blended better
Teats are well defined from the udder
Teats could be a bit bigger, more plumb.
Udder texture looks good
Udder looks free from extra teats and injury.

For Suzi,
Cons:
Needs brisket
Point of shoulder is way too prominent, and sharp
Neck needs better blending into the withers
Needs more strength in the front end assambly
Hips need to be wider
Thurls are a bit too prominent

Pros:
Nice body length
Nice body depth
Good chine
Level topline
Has a nice slope
Long bone pattern throughout
Decent rump, best of them all
Nice angulation in the rear legs
Pins are nice
Femininity
Fits breed standard

Can't judge her udder because I can't really see it too well

I will judge ella after she kids, she looks really heavy and that will normally drag her down in spots.

I'd like to see Breck clipped, but he has
Strong topline
Decent rump
Good legs
Little bit of a slope
Nice depth
Masculinity

Good little buck

For Cloud,
Cons:
Back arches up a bit
Rump could be a bit more level
Looks a bit weak in the chine
Needs more brisket
Needs a bit more body length
Borderline posty rear legs
Neck needs to blend better into the brisket

Pros:
Nice depth
Long bone pattern
Wide in the escutcheon
Nice pin bones
Chest floor blends well
Seemingly straight legs

He'd look better set up, and he might be in a wonky growth spurt right now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Oh, I have so many questions! Too many to ask all at once, argh! ;) and I can't stay right now- about to watch a family movie. ( the show thing was doing the same thing to me, btw- just audio and such, ugh)I know I need to give Breck a good haircut, but he's hard to catch- also I felt like he would feel disgraced to be shaved, hehe. He is very masculine.


I did want to say that Danielle's legs are a little posts, but wasn't completely sure. Now the pics of Storm are really bad, I know. It was SO bright out there(and HOT) I couldn't see the camera screen at all, so I was just pointing in the general direction and clicking, lol.
I'll try to do better ones.


That's funny that you said Jac. has a wider rump than Dan., because I think, (not %100 sure), but I think Danielle's is actually wider. Can't be certain though, I never measured, lol.


Oh, and I'm almost certain Jac.'s udder isn't lopsided, I think it's the way she's standing in that pic, it's making her udder get pulled up on one side.


And just tonight I was noticing that Suzi's shoulder IS way too pointy- I was going to add that to my list of ideas. :)

Oh, and none of them cooperated in the slightest for the pics, they're like what in the world are you doing you weird human? So, yeah, none of them are set up right, sorry. Just tell me which pics are the worst and ill try to get better ones. This is like the third time I've tried to get good ones for you. :)


Gotta go now, people are waiting for me!
 

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I said Danielle's udder was lopsided, Jac's isn't.

Now as far as hip width not rump, hip, Jac has wider hips (hip bone to hip bone), it's gonna be different between the three does, but in propotion to her body, Jac's hip bone width is too wide.

The fist pic of Jac, and the first pic of Storm need redone. Also, not a big issue like the other two pics, but the one of Danielle as angled toward her front end, so it doesnt show her rump and rear legs too well.
 

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Oh, and my professional advise to you,.... your dairy does needs some more body conditioning, they are below average on a body condition score. So just bump up the grain, or make sure they have clean cool water in this heat. Suzi is especially thin between all of them, Breck and Ella look good though!
 

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Can you grab a pic of Jackie? Her rear legs strick me as sickle, not posty. Sickle legs are much harder to breed up than posty legs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Oh, and my professional advise to you,.... your dairy does needs some more body conditioning, they are below average on a body condition score. So just bump up the grain, or make sure they have clean cool water in this heat. Suzi is especially thin between all of them, Breck and Ella look good though!
Okay, well they always have clean cool water- we have to scrub out their water troughs pretty much every day, and they get refilled like three times a day.
Grain, yes, I'm in the process of learning how much and what to give them, so no surprise there. As a matter of fact I just gave them more than usual tonight, and will continue to do so. I want to get some beet pulp to add to their ration.
And don't tell me about Suzi- she's the Queen of pickiness! I know she's too thin, but she won't eat enough. She doesn't like alfalfa pellets, whereas the others will kill for them, so she'll only eat about half of what I'd like her to. She doesn't seem to care much for food at all- when she was nursing her kid, she wouldn't eat on the milk stand; shed just stand there and strain to see her baby and call to her. And baby wouldn't help, shed start bawling and then we'd have to put them together and feed her while baby was nursing, but she was usually still too distracted to eat much. :rolleyes:
She also eats really slowly, and we can't let her eat with the others, cause she's the lowest in the pecking order, and won't even try to get food while the others are eating. Jacqueline especially hates for Suzi to get anything.
So, yes you're totally right, I'll see what I can do about that.

Oh, and where Danielle's pic was off angle-wise my little sis took the pic (I'm the one holding the goat) so go figure. ;)
 

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Oh gosh, I have a doe that eats like a dead bird! I found if I separated the grain into little rows in the bucket she would eat more ( like a row of sweet feed, a row of calf manna, a row of boss, etc). Also,I will milk her and if she doesn't eat her grain, I will take her grain, and her to the gate, and when all the other goats are trying to eat her grain, she will suddenly have and appetite.

How much grain are you giving?
 

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It looks like her cannon bones are too long in the hind legs. Makes the thurl weak, giving the appearance of posty in this pic, and sickle in the opposite. I wonder how she gaits?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well, Sarah.... I guess I will judge them for you, lol :p the nationals are really fuzzing out on my computer and the kindle wont even show the flipping ring, just the audio plays, so whatever with that! It's ok, I don't like LaMancha's that much anyways, I was just watching it to see my friend, lol

I do agree and disagree with some of your critiques of your does.

For Danellie,
Cons:
Does not seem to have any extra teats, or lumps, no sign of udder damage. Shouldn't, we got them bred and are pretty much the only ones to milk them ever, though you can't see it in the pics, Danielle does have a very small bump I'm trying to resolve; not sire what it is.


Jacqueline:

Pros:
She has a bit of a slope (very slight though) Where should I be looking for this?

For her udder
Teats need to be more centered (and the right teats looks more forward set...) This is what I meant when I said lopsided, sorry, typed it fast.
Medial is good
Fore udder needs to be tighter attached and blended better
Teats are well defined from the udder
Teats could be a bit bigger, more plumb.
Udder texture looks good
Udder looks free from extra teats and injury.

For Suzi,
Cons:
Thurls are a bit too prominent What is a thurl?

Pros:
Nice body length
Nice body depth
Good chine
Level topline
Has a nice slope
Long bone pattern throughout Yeah, she's really bony!
Decent rump, best of them all
Nice angulation in the rear legs
Pins are nice What is a pin???
Femininity
Fits breed standard

Can't judge her udder because I can't really see it too wellYes, I was going to get a better pic(s) there. Again, the sun! Too bright, and her udder isn't really that good IMO. Medial is too defined, I think, and rear attachments aren't great. Also lopsided from having a single kid nurse on her for year(previously to us owning her).

I'd like to see Breck clipped, but he has
Strong topline
Decent rump
Good legs
Little bit of a slope
Nice depth
Masculinity

Good little buck

:D :cool: Happiness! He and Ella are the only ones that are actually mine, makes me happy! :)
.
Okay, that took a while! Tell me what you think!:)
 

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I feel like you need to look into a proper diagram of terminology to better aware yourself on what we're talking about.

 

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http://www.wdga.org/caring-for-goats/

My phone isn't letting me work with pictures apparently right now. Check out our Wisconsin goat association, they have a nice diagram on goat anatomy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Oh gosh, I have a doe that eats like a dead bird!
How much grain are you giving?
Picky things sometimes!:)

Well, please don't kill me, but we aren't feeding a whole lot right now because I'm trying to work them into more food gradually. See, somebody on this forum said they only fed their milkers alfalfa, hehe (keep in mind that though we've had goats for 5+ years, I knew nothing before I joined this forum)
So I was trying that out. Obviously DIDN'T work out, so now I being smarter and giving more good stuff. :p

Here's the daily ration (right now) for one of our milkers:
-We only milk in the evenings-
Morning: 2lbs alfalfa, 1 lb %16 grain
Evening: 2lbs alfalfa, 1lb%16 grain, roughly 2cups of BOSS
And 1 Tbsp of minerals, 1tsp kelp and 1 tsp of dolomite powder, mixed with honey-water and tossed into their feed.

IM TOTALLY HAPPY TO LEARN!! In fact, please tell me what I'm doing wrong!
I'm new to all this, and it's kind of complicated. I'm trying to do the best I can for them, just takes a while to learn it all. :D
 
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