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Discussion Starter #21
Thank you! I love them all dearly, Juno definitely has a special place in my heart though lol. I’m super excited about her babies!

I have not given Rose any copper. One of my vets kind of scared me out of doing them. She said it could cause more harm than good. I have well water, i need to get it tested but I’m pretty sure it’s hard. I bolused my 3 wethers last March when they showed symptoms and saw improvement with them...then my vet said it was bad to do. so many people do it though, so I may implement it again.

I’m willing to try anything honestly lol. She gets loose minerals, but not salt. I can add that in. She also gets selenium paste monthly. I’ll have to look into those herbs as well!
It’s tough because I have already spent so much, I don’t want it to go to waste if there is a chance she will take if I try something else. But on the other hand: what if I keep spending money on exams and treatments and she doesn’t take.
I’m not typically one to give up so knowing me I’ll keep trying lol.
 

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Huh! I'm so curious why your vet opposes copper bolusing. I've honestly never met anyone who *doesn't* do copper supplementation in some form. Copper is so important for all their bodily systems and the bolus particles can reduce parasite load, too. If you live in an area with deficient soils AND have hard water I think it likely they have both primary and secondary deficiency, especially since you saw visual improvement in your wethers when you supplemented them.

If your vet has some sort of good reason for not bolusing, maybe you could try top dressing their feed with a supplement that includes copper. ZinPro makes one called TruCare that I like, that might be a good choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
I really don't remember exactly what her reasoning is, but she was against giving copper in any form. She said something about there being a study that giving copper is not necessary and can actually shorten the lifespan of goats. I thought it was weird that I had seen so many people copper their goats for years with no issues, but I didn't really question it further.

I am just now learning that while I respect my vets and value their advice, we are allowed to have a difference in opinions. lol

I'll copper Rose (and everyone else) and will just continue watching her for any signs of heat.
 

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Huh. Well that is... shocking. Copper deficiency can cause fertility issues and it can absolutely also be life threatening. As long as an area is known to be deficient in copper, I'm pretty sure veterinary science is fairly unanimous that goats require dietary supplementation.

The only studies I was able to find were about inducing copper toxicity by using copper sulfate, which has a narrower range of safety as it is more easily absorbed, and about copper toxicity in very young kids. I wasn't able to find the one your vet referred to. The full role of copper in goat health is still pretty poorly understood, but one thing that's pretty clear is that they do require it in some form. And copper oxide (in the bolus) is pretty safe because it's NOT absorbed as efficiently as copper sulfate, so as long as boluses are given at appropriate intervals the risk of toxicity is generally low.

I also wasn't able to find any reference to lifespan issues in the sections on copper supplementation and toxicity from Smith and Sherman's veterinary textbook "Goat Medicine." I've attached those here for reference. If this was my vet I might bring this up with them (in a gentle way), as that disconnect would be a little bit scary to me. And of course we can't know copper is what is causing Rose's failure to settle, but it's for sure something that I'd try!
 

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Huh! I'm so curious
Huh! I'm so curious why your vet opposes copper bolusing. I've honestly never met anyone who *doesn't* do copper supplementation in some form. Copper is so important for all their bodily systems and the bolus particles can reduce parasite load, too. If you live in an area with deficient soils AND have hard water I think it likely they have both primary and secondary deficiency, especially since you saw visual improvement in your wethers when you supplemented them.

If your vet has some sort of good reason for not bolusing, maybe you could try top dressing their feed with a supplement that includes copper. ZinPro makes one called TruCare that I like, that might be a good choice.
why your vet opposes copper bolusing. I've honestly never met anyone who *doesn't* do copper supplementation in some form. Copper is so important for all their bodily systems and the bolus particles can reduce parasite load, too. If you live in an area with deficient soils AND have hard water I think it likely they have both primary and secondary deficiency, especially since you saw visual improvement in your wethers when you supplemented them.

If your vet has some sort of good reason for not bolusing, maybe you could try top dressing their feed with a supplement that includes copper. ZinPro makes one called TruCare that I like, that might be a good choice.
Thank you for the info! Next time she is here I'll try and casually bring it up!
The copper bolus made for goats is safe.
You can always underdose a bit if it scares you and the goat is actually licking the minerals free choice or getting it by other means, so you have to take that into consideration.

You do not have to add salt, minerals usually have salt in there.

Does the minerals you are using have good copper and selenium?
Do know, if you have hard water(iron), that robs copper from their bodies.

Also make sure your minerals do not have iron in there.
I had one mineral without knowing, have iron in it, my water does too so, I actually threw away that bag because it was causing more issues.

I gave my Boer Doe, who was having issues getting pregnant 1 copper bolus, I underdosed her, but she did conceive her next heat cycle.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Just about 3 weeks to go with Juno! She is doing really well. She is getting rounder by the day and is getting her condition back which makes me really happy to see. She looks like she may be just starting to get an udder, but she's pretty hairy so its hard to tell. The kidding stall and turnout I used last year has since been taken up by my pony and one of our horses because I needed the space for a boarder. I have an extra stall in my barn that I have been using for hay so my project in the next 2 weeks is to have that cleared out and ready to go for Juno. I had planned to have the new goat barn built by now, but we have been so busy it just hasn't happened yet. We actually just built an apartment above the barn for me, so she'll be right downstairs...I'm not sure if that will be a good thing or a bad thing:lolgoat: I'll probably be checking on her nonstop.

Minerva is doing well also! There are no major changes with her, she just spends her time eating and bossing the younger girls around lol
I believe rose *may* have been in heat today. Zuko is a very chill young man and never really pesters the girls or is vocal unless someone is in heat. He was all over Rose today. He was blubbering at her and chasing her around for most of the day. She was interested in him, but wouldn't stand for him. He did mount her a few times, but i'm not sure if he actually bred her or not. I will probably pull blood in a month just to see, but i'm not going to get my hopes up yet.
AND because i'm not certain rose can be bred, and Minerva isn't registered so I won't be retaining her kids I decided I needed some new lines in the herd because all I have is Juno and her kids. So i just put a deposit down on a pretty little doeling and she should be coming home right around when Juno kids :)
 

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Discussion Starter #28
Just a little over a week now for miss Juno!!! I noticed about a week ago her ligaments were starting to soften. She's already pretty squishy, but I do remember her having almost no ligs for well over a week before she kidded last time too.
I clipped her udder a couple days ago so it was easier for me to see how its growing, and its getting there! She will probably get moved into the kidding stall sometime next week at nighttime.
I'm excited to see what she has in there! She is due the day after Easter, so maybe we'll have Easter babies!
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Looking great! She is such a cutie! I love how she uses the hay feeder for shade!
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Juno’s due date was yesterday and she’s looking like she’s plans on holding on a little while longer. Ligs and udder haven’t changed much the past couple days. Rose has been oddly protective over her and rubbing her head on her back end which is a little odd. I’m thinking maybe Thursday or Friday based on how she’s looking compared to last year. Pics are from today
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I’m thinking we may have babies by tomorrow! Her ligs were still pretty easy to find at 7 tonight, but I checked her at 9:30 and they are almost totally gone. She’s tricky because last year she popped them out without showing any major signs. No restlessness, no slime, no noises..nothing. I almost missed the birth completely!
she’s literally right downstairs from me right now in the barn so I’ll be checking on her through the night!
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Lol I was up every couple hours to check on her through the night..no babies yet but ligs are totally gone and udder is quite full. She’s also hollowed out. She’s pretty stoic but you can tell by her eyes she’s uncomfortable so I’m thinking soon. We’re just hanging out in the stall together right now :)
 

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Discussion Starter #37
Babies are here!! She was having contractions for about 7 hours, started pushing at about 1:30 this morning, had a beautiful little buckling within a minute and as I was handing him to her to clean off out came a little doeling!
the little buckling was up and walking within 10 minutes and was chasing me around trying to nurse off of my pants. The doeling is still trying to figure out this walking thing but she has nursed a few times already and I gave her some jump start to be safe.
juno is doing awesome with them, as I figured she would be! I’ll be hanging out down here a little while longer to make sure all is well, but I’m exhausted and ready for bed!
 

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Congrats to you and Juno, the twins are lovely. 🎂
 
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Congratulations!!! They are beautiful! I hope you are sleeping now.
 
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