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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well after that whole shenanigan with the horse, I just recently had another horrifying discovery. My rescued doe has a growing lump right before her stifle, a prime CL location. It is hard, about the size of a nickel or quarter, and you can move the skin over it. I had my dad feel it and after that he seemed pretty open to getting them tested and such. I will get that done ASAP, but for now I need to deal with the current abscess. Culling is out of the question. I have read about using Formalin to kill the abscess, and it's a gamble as to whether or not more will appear. And if any internal abscesses arise, I've read about using Vitamin C injections to detoxify them so they don't affect the system. Now, as to whether either of these methods work is a toss up, so I wanted to know what you guys think.

The doe that has the abscess has been exposed to goats with abscesses(most likely CL abscesses as they were in the right spots), as has my other doe. It is very possible they could both have the disease.

Also, I am worried about the goats that don't have abscesses currently. I found a vaccine on Jeffers: http://www.jefferspet.com/cl-bacterin-vaccine/camid/LIV/cp/0040569/cn/3301/ and saw that there was one offered by the University of California, provided you give them a sample of puss so they can create a vaccine for your specific strand of virus. All of these goats are just pets(except for a little ND doeling who will be might for show and possibly milk and breeding unless she comes up positive). However we had two new goats come in a few months ago with no info on anything, so if they have the disease as well with no external abscesses, how are we supposed to get a sample so that we can vaccinate for that as well?

I wanted to know your opinions on all these things. We have nowhere to separate the goats currently, and we can't spend millions. So we are pretty restricted.

It's sad really, but I think after this we won't be getting anymore goats...ever. It's just a lot for one animal. And it's one right after another! Last week it was pygmy with pneumonia(which the goat may still have along with passing it on to a couple others) and this weeks it's a Boer with CL. I mean, it's too much for a kid to take...and it's wearing on my parents wallets.
 

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This is why I will never rescue goats, there is just too many risks that go along with goats. That saying No good deed goes unpunished is SO right on. I am sorry that you are going through all this.
 

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I'm watching you
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I agree Audrey, especially around here with the huge population of poorly bred and cared for "brush goats".

I have rescued a couple but, I have a quarantine area and knew the original breeders.

It's too bad. All you can do now is test the herd and see where you are at.
 

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Just because it's the right spot doesn't mean it absolutely is CL. I'm sorry you're dealing with this though.

Read this thread: http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f186/cl-discussion-150100/ - It does show both sides of cull immediately and those that worked with it.

I wouldn't use Formalin unless I knew for sure it was CL.
You can do serology testing on those with no abscess. Actually IMO, serology is good to do on them all. Make sure the blood gets sent only to WADDL. They have the most trustworthy results.

Quarantine the goat with the abscess now. They can only contaminate through pus contact. If they have internal (it's rare) they can sneeze/cough up pus but its rare. Still, quarantine the ones you think might have it. You can create 2 herds. Pos and neg. In that thread above, people talked about having CL in their herds and how they got rid of it without culling everyone.

The vaccine from Jeffers isn't 100% effective but it's reported to help positives in having less abscesses and help those around them from contracting CL but like I said it's not 100%. The autogenous vaccine (the one made from your goat's CL) is supposed to be really really good, better than the standard Jeffers one but it's $750 just to make it.

Hang in there. People get hysterical over CL but there are ways to deal with it. Breath.
Read that thread, hopefully it will reassure you. Ask questions.
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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Dont use Formalin. Its formaldehyde. The stuff they pump into dead bodies. I would think iodine would work just as well but havent herd anyone using it in replace of formalin. It may just be a bad idea with bad side effects. Read the CL topic Amy posted for lots of good info. Separate, test and see where you stand.
 

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If your boats were clean and this thing is cl and has not popped they are fine. Ms Amy above got me reading more on cl. From what I have gathered the ones with internal and in the lungs will always cough and have snot noses. And another thing I just read is if you make your sick pen in a warm dry area then if the puss gets on the ground will only live about 8 months. The cold and wet they say it lives better then hit and dry. So I would just make a little pen for her away from the others and get it tested. Like they said could be nothing. If it is cl then test the rest to be on the safe side. At one time I was going to do that vac. But the more I think about it the more I'm going to hold off till its been out longer and see what it does. Right now I think its basically just being tested out and sorry not gonna test on my goats. That's my thought on it any how.
 

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Ohhh another thing about your sick pen make it down wind. One site said they believe even though has not been tested yet is that the cl puss will mix in with dust and other goats will breath it and get it. Again there is nothing for sure about that at all but to be on the safe side ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Wow 750$ for the vaccine O.O Umm...no thank you. And formaldehyde is just a really really powerful disinfectant, bacteria cannot survive in it, which is why it is able to kill the abscess. We have no room to separate the goats...at all. I can and will keep a very close eye on the lump, and if it gets too big or if I feel it will burst, I will have a vet come out to lance and test it.

As for the testing, I've heard that WADDL gives false positives because of the way it tests. I was told to go through California to do CL...I'll look into it though.
 

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Once it is open you want it away from the other goats. I can not stress that enough. It is so hard to get all that puss out and that's what spreads it. If you have a trailer I would use that. Put bedding down and when its over and if its cl then remove burn the bedding and bleach the trailer. If your not wanting cl in your herd I would try and figure something out or be ready to cull or manage it.
 

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No testing facility is foolproof. The testing facilities actually give out more false negatives than false positives. WADDL has the best for serology and Cornell for pus. But you should use whatever test facility you feel comfortable with.

As Jessica said, it's important that you don't let other goats around the open abscess. Using formalin or lancing will still leave access to pus material. It doesn't all come put with the first lance and squeeze. You need a couple of days of flushing it and then waiting for it to dry up and scab over. A goat licks that wound or material drops out and you've infected more goats.

CL can be managed but it's not easy and it takes diligence to not infect the whole herd. Hopefully you don't actually have CL but if it's suspected it's safer to be cautious now then regret it later
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Oh trust me once I think it may burst that goat is getting quarantined one way or another. And I didn't know about the serology, how would I do that?
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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A few things. First, a goat with internal CL abscess will NOT always have a runny nose and or cough. Its more likely they will if they are in the lungs but not always. There are a dozen other places internal they can grow them as well that would not produce a cough or snotty nose.

It is easy to fully clean an external CL abscess. You make a cut top to buttom of the abscess, nearly the entire height of the abscess. Do it over material you can throw away and or burn. A cheap blue tarp or even emptied grain bags. While wearing rubber gloves squeeze the abscess to get most of the puss out. Next you want to do a quick flush with iodine to start killing the bacteria in and around the wound. Keep squeezing and flushing. When you cant get anymore to come out, use Q tips to dig the rest of the puss outta the corners, flushing as you go. You can use a syringe to flush just be gentle on the plunger. You dont want it shooting back out for squirting the iodine in there to fast. When you are sure all the puss is out, flush one last time and saturate, with iodine, a large enough piece of paper towel to pack into the wound. So you are more or less replacing the same amount of puss with a iodine soaked paper towel. Leave a corner sticking outta the wound about a half inch so you can easily grab it to pull it out. Replace this paper towel once a day for 3-7 days depending upon the side and mass of the abscess. Keep quarantined until the abscess site is totally healed. Move to a positive pen at least 50 feet, but farther is better, from any negative goats and or sheep.
 

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Dave is right. If they have internal, the lungs are more rare then them getting it in their intestines. According to my vet who works with a lot of cases says that's where he sees it first. It strangles the intestines and that's why a goat seems to lose weight fast.

Serology test = blood test. Your vet can do it or you can take a blood sample and send it in to WADDL. In my opinion the blood test isn't always accurate (more false neg than pos) but can be. I wouldn't discount it as a tool but I would use WADDL as IMO, they're the most accurate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hm, I'll keep an eye out and call a vet if needed to test all my goats and clean the abscess. I just hope that this won't infect my ND doeling...she's the only one I'm sure hasn't been exposed to CL. Then again, our barn is 100 years old and has kept goats, so who knows what diseases are in the wood...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
The abscess has grown...almost twice the size of a nickel now. I've been keeping a firm eye on it and my parents are open to calling a vet if needed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Not yet, it's gotten bigger...it is definitely at least twice as big as when I first saw it. It's about the size of 1.5 quarters...It's hard and hasn't attached to the skin yet. And what sucks is she might be having babies within the next month(almost zero signs of pregnancy so far, but with a month left(she had a range of about 2.5 months for possible due dates, the end of that range is in October) and her being an FF, she might just pop em out at any time) so I need to keep a really close eye on her in more ways than one. Luckily, my dad just fenced off(with chicken wire) the walkway between the two stalls. So the pygmies are separated from the Boers at night. At least now we have some kind of option of isolation.
 

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If she does have CL you may want to pull the babies and bottle feed. There is no hard proof that CL is not passed in the colustrum but there is no hard proof that its not either. If she has CL, you can't be sure there isn't something internal that she's passing on.
 
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