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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone here tried Kikos for packing? Or their crosses?

I have only seen pictures of them, but they seem like they might work well on a Saanen or Alpine .

Right now I am seeing few packing prospects for a pack string, and am wondering about just breeding a good cross and getting a stabilized cross to work with.

I am thinking of a 50% meat goat and 50% dairy, and then going another cross towards which ever is larger to a 5/8s of the one and 3/8s of the other.

Where I live here is a lot of state and federal forest trails, some is offlimits to pack animals and ORV but much is open to horse trails.

I only need one or two does that can be milked once a day for household use, so a meat/dairy cross seems to be quite doable.

Thoughts/Comments?
 

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They are generally on the smaller side. I know males can sometimes reach 300 lbs but most of the size is in the chest and belly making them somewhat barrel shaped. That makes it harder to keep a saddle on. The ones I have seen are also short legged which is also an undesirable trait on the trail.

I'm not saying they can't be used as packgoats, only listing a few reasons they are not as popular as some other breeds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi Rex

Thanks for the reply,

so do you think a Boer would cross better with Saanens and Alpines for packing? Or stay with the Saanen and Alpines alone?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
THe dairy crosses are easy to handle for sure, and more available, strangely here in Northern MI there arnt a lot of goats, but I am going to several of the area fairs and willbe talking to goat people.

Thaks for the responses.
 

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My new kid, Hines is a naturally polled 3/4 Saanan 1/4 Alpine. I also have 5 pure alpines. I'm really enjoying Hines and he's growing like a weed! The only draw back is when he's old enough to pack I'm going to be old! :(

I'm thinking of keeping him intact and putting him with my 2 Alpine does this fall. If I got any kids they would be 5/8 Alpine & 3/8 Saanen. And by the time they were ready to pack I'll be even OLDER! :eek:

The breeder I got him from has 3 more naturally polled Saanen/Alpine bucklings for $75 each if anyone wants one.

Apparently they sold so quickly that she raised the price! Glad I got Hines when I did! I wanted to buy more but showed (in my case) great restraint and only brought Hines and 2 dozen free range eggs home!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi Icedog

Old is relative,

I am 70, going on 39.

I do a couple miles a day with my Bloodhound in S&R training, and enjoy hiking and weekend overnights. If we stop, we're stopped. gotta keep on keeping on.

And I am working on what I want for a breeding line of packing goats and home milk.

I think a 5/8s dairy and 3/8s meat goat should make a great pack animal and also have a couple home milkers.
The question being which meat buck to use for the initial cross. Or may skip the meat cross altogether, we shall see, got fairs to go in august and september.

So stay your course, you are never too old to enjoy life.
 

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I'm curous about this: if you have too much Boer or Kiko in the mix, might you end up with four teats on the does making them much harder to milk? If you want to have an easy milking goat that can also pack, wouldn't Alpine/Saanen be your best bet?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi Ali

My first choice is the Saanen/Alpine cross, I wouldnt want any Boer, way too short legged, I'd only want just enough Kiko to give a better muscled animal, and not lose height, or frame. Ideally I'd like to find a Kiko/Saanen buckling to raise out.

For sure dont want any 4 teated does, they wouldnt stay.

Right now just wondering what if, while I pursue the right Saanens and Alpines. I could be very happy with them I believe. But will keep my eyes open for the right Kiko cross buckling.
 

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Jake,
Don't discount the Boer crosses. I have an alpine/boer which is arguably my best packer. He is kinda of ornery, not too smart, and not very athletic, but he never quits and always carries the most weight. A big dumb jock. My cross is a 50/50, but a 5/8 alpine would be better. Having said that, I love my saanen. He is the boss in my string and is the most loyal of the bunch. He speaks softly and carries a big stick. Very gentle. I think a Saanen/alpine cross would be the perfect packgoat prospect. My two lamanchas are athletic, loving, very docile and great packers, but have the loudest, most obnoxious voices imaginable. I agree with Rex on the kiko. My experience with them is very limited(1) and I didn't it as a step up by any means. I would stick with the proven breeds, unless you just want to be different. Good luck and take care.

Aaron
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
HiAaron

I'm not really ruling any breed out, but pics I have seen of Boers donot show the legs I want for a pack goat, I need to see some crosses and hear a lot more about them. If, the Kiko turns out to be shortlegged in the crosses then they are out, the one thing I was wanting in the meat cross is more muscling and keeping the dairy height and length.

Quite likely the better mix on the meat cross would be a 1/4 to 1/2 of the meat breed and the rest of the dairy of the dairy.

Like you and Rex my first picks are the Saanens and Alpines and their crosses, I suppose I should include the Sables in there too, being a Saanen.

How tall and heavy is your Boer cross? One thing I am not seeing or reading is the mature size of the meat crosses.

The Saanens I have had have been great on temperament, and very intelligent.

Here in MI maybe a tough shortlegged goat could make a good pack goat,
 

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Jake,
My Alpine/Boer cross is about 190 lbs and is very strong. Where he lacks in athletics, he is strong in work ethic. He never quits, always plows through the stream crossing without looking for a place to cross and wants to be with me more than any other goats. He is just a knucklehead and not very smart. He always wants to fight and thinks he his the boss wherever we go. I use my goats for hunting during bow season and I take them with me while I am hunting. When calling in bull elk, he almost always starts thrashing trees and had him try and confront a bull coming in to fight once. The other three goats either froze and watched or they just kept feeding. It is both funny and scary to watch at the same time. I left him in camp with another goat all last year because of this. Alpines seemed to be pretty spirited, and when you add the meat goat in the mix, all intelligence went out the window. I am originally from Northern Michigan and agree that a short-legged goat would not be best in the area I lived in, due to all the timber and blowdowns. I think temperament is more important than muscling in my opinion. I hope you find what you are looking for because any packgoat is still better than no packgoat. Take care.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hi Aaron

Right now I am just collecting information, I have seen few pack goat pics and about none of the meat crosses so I am just playing in the dark there, for sure attitude is a major factor in any pack goat.

Is your cross a wether?

I bow hunt also make my own bows, the last few years primarily Plains style horse bows. It would be nice to pack a buck out with goats instead of dragging to where could put it in a truck.

I agree, any packgoat beats none at all.
 

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FYI, my Saanen/Alpine/Boer cross weighs around 240 lbs, stands 38" tall, and is one of the most agile goats I have. We put 58 lbs (measured) on him last year and he didn't care a bit. He is a wonderful packer.

I bought him from Sweetgoatmama.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thats a very respectable weight to pack, any pics of him?

I am very curious and interested in her line. Do you know what the different percentages of each are in him ?
 

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I have lots of pictures of him, but I do not have the foggiest clue how to post them here.

Sorry, you will have to ask Carolyn about the percentages. She just knows what I need and then she gets it for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I'm hoping that she will post some here, another poster asked for them also. I am slowly doing my homework on lines.

Right now I have traded my one Alpine off, and have two Saanen wethers, a Saanen doeling and a yearling Saanen, I am hoping to find a nice Alpine buckling this winter or next spring, an even better addition would be one of Carolyns bucklings.

I am not going to breed either one of these does before next year now, it is looking more and more like moving to NE Wa come spring.
 

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On the subject of multiple teats. They are seldom seen in the crosses. And, I have seen three teats on registerd dairy goats so you can't always be sure how things are going to work. The few I have seen are not an issue.

I am really bad about posting photos. But yes, the fast twitch muscle very slow twitch is important. Otherwise you have a weighlifter type goat, Boer, who can't get out of his own tracks. Too much fast twitch though and his weight bearing ability will be lessened and he will have tendon and ligament problems from carrying weight.
Our crosses tend to run about 1/3-1/4 meat goat and the rest dairy goat, ideally a cross between two types, such as saanen/alpine/ or saanen lamancha.

We started with an embryo import Boer who had somewhat longer legs than the average boer and bred him to the saanen doe, Helen, who started this whole thing. This cross produced Winter who is a bit short legged, half and half. It also roduced Lazlo who has really decent leg proportions. Fro there we went to some other boer crosses, experimenting. The 1/4 boer seems to be the right amount, but of course that doesn't mean every 1/4 boer will make a great packgoat. Someone commented on the attitude between the two types. That is much more a response to the type of raising as all the boers I've dealt with in this are very sweet. And of course saanens are too. But I like a little alpine in the mix as they have more endurance and bottom to them. Straight boers can be a little lazy due to having to work harder because of the short legs.
These goats were line bred extensively for several years, about 10 so far. Helen is 12 this year and had her last kids this year. She could probably do it again but she deserves a rest. Her daughter at 10 is still going strong and will probably get bred back to JR once more at least. JR is alpine/saanen and she is saanen/boer, 50-50% each.

Our crosses are between 220 and 275 average.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks Carolyn, its appreciated.

The Alpine I just traded is small, good milker and sweet but I want Alpines with longer legs, there are enough around to shop, I may get an Alpine buckling this fall, we'll see.
 
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