The Goat Spot Forum banner

Kiko Goats and Crosses for Packing

15K views 37 replies 16 participants last post by  bluespade00 
#1 ·
Has anyone here tried Kikos for packing? Or their crosses?

I have only seen pictures of them, but they seem like they might work well on a Saanen or Alpine .

Right now I am seeing few packing prospects for a pack string, and am wondering about just breeding a good cross and getting a stabilized cross to work with.

I am thinking of a 50% meat goat and 50% dairy, and then going another cross towards which ever is larger to a 5/8s of the one and 3/8s of the other.

Where I live here is a lot of state and federal forest trails, some is offlimits to pack animals and ORV but much is open to horse trails.

I only need one or two does that can be milked once a day for household use, so a meat/dairy cross seems to be quite doable.

Thoughts/Comments?
 
#2 ·
They are generally on the smaller side. I know males can sometimes reach 300 lbs but most of the size is in the chest and belly making them somewhat barrel shaped. That makes it harder to keep a saddle on. The ones I have seen are also short legged which is also an undesirable trait on the trail.

I'm not saying they can't be used as packgoats, only listing a few reasons they are not as popular as some other breeds.
 
#5 ·
THe dairy crosses are easy to handle for sure, and more available, strangely here in Northern MI there arnt a lot of goats, but I am going to several of the area fairs and willbe talking to goat people.

Thaks for the responses.
 
#6 ·
My new kid, Hines is a naturally polled 3/4 Saanan 1/4 Alpine. I also have 5 pure alpines. I'm really enjoying Hines and he's growing like a weed! The only draw back is when he's old enough to pack I'm going to be old! :(

I'm thinking of keeping him intact and putting him with my 2 Alpine does this fall. If I got any kids they would be 5/8 Alpine & 3/8 Saanen. And by the time they were ready to pack I'll be even OLDER! :eek:

The breeder I got him from has 3 more naturally polled Saanen/Alpine bucklings for $75 each if anyone wants one.

Apparently they sold so quickly that she raised the price! Glad I got Hines when I did! I wanted to buy more but showed (in my case) great restraint and only brought Hines and 2 dozen free range eggs home!
 
#7 ·
Hi Icedog

Old is relative,

I am 70, going on 39.

I do a couple miles a day with my Bloodhound in S&R training, and enjoy hiking and weekend overnights. If we stop, we're stopped. gotta keep on keeping on.

And I am working on what I want for a breeding line of packing goats and home milk.

I think a 5/8s dairy and 3/8s meat goat should make a great pack animal and also have a couple home milkers.
The question being which meat buck to use for the initial cross. Or may skip the meat cross altogether, we shall see, got fairs to go in august and september.

So stay your course, you are never too old to enjoy life.
 
#9 ·
Hi Ali

My first choice is the Saanen/Alpine cross, I wouldnt want any Boer, way too short legged, I'd only want just enough Kiko to give a better muscled animal, and not lose height, or frame. Ideally I'd like to find a Kiko/Saanen buckling to raise out.

For sure dont want any 4 teated does, they wouldnt stay.

Right now just wondering what if, while I pursue the right Saanens and Alpines. I could be very happy with them I believe. But will keep my eyes open for the right Kiko cross buckling.
 
#10 ·
Jake,
Don't discount the Boer crosses. I have an alpine/boer which is arguably my best packer. He is kinda of ornery, not too smart, and not very athletic, but he never quits and always carries the most weight. A big dumb jock. My cross is a 50/50, but a 5/8 alpine would be better. Having said that, I love my saanen. He is the boss in my string and is the most loyal of the bunch. He speaks softly and carries a big stick. Very gentle. I think a Saanen/alpine cross would be the perfect packgoat prospect. My two lamanchas are athletic, loving, very docile and great packers, but have the loudest, most obnoxious voices imaginable. I agree with Rex on the kiko. My experience with them is very limited(1) and I didn't it as a step up by any means. I would stick with the proven breeds, unless you just want to be different. Good luck and take care.

Aaron
 
#11 ·
HiAaron

I'm not really ruling any breed out, but pics I have seen of Boers donot show the legs I want for a pack goat, I need to see some crosses and hear a lot more about them. If, the Kiko turns out to be shortlegged in the crosses then they are out, the one thing I was wanting in the meat cross is more muscling and keeping the dairy height and length.

Quite likely the better mix on the meat cross would be a 1/4 to 1/2 of the meat breed and the rest of the dairy of the dairy.

Like you and Rex my first picks are the Saanens and Alpines and their crosses, I suppose I should include the Sables in there too, being a Saanen.

How tall and heavy is your Boer cross? One thing I am not seeing or reading is the mature size of the meat crosses.

The Saanens I have had have been great on temperament, and very intelligent.

Here in MI maybe a tough shortlegged goat could make a good pack goat,
 
#12 ·
Jake,
My Alpine/Boer cross is about 190 lbs and is very strong. Where he lacks in athletics, he is strong in work ethic. He never quits, always plows through the stream crossing without looking for a place to cross and wants to be with me more than any other goats. He is just a knucklehead and not very smart. He always wants to fight and thinks he his the boss wherever we go. I use my goats for hunting during bow season and I take them with me while I am hunting. When calling in bull elk, he almost always starts thrashing trees and had him try and confront a bull coming in to fight once. The other three goats either froze and watched or they just kept feeding. It is both funny and scary to watch at the same time. I left him in camp with another goat all last year because of this. Alpines seemed to be pretty spirited, and when you add the meat goat in the mix, all intelligence went out the window. I am originally from Northern Michigan and agree that a short-legged goat would not be best in the area I lived in, due to all the timber and blowdowns. I think temperament is more important than muscling in my opinion. I hope you find what you are looking for because any packgoat is still better than no packgoat. Take care.
 
#13 ·
Hi Aaron

Right now I am just collecting information, I have seen few pack goat pics and about none of the meat crosses so I am just playing in the dark there, for sure attitude is a major factor in any pack goat.

Is your cross a wether?

I bow hunt also make my own bows, the last few years primarily Plains style horse bows. It would be nice to pack a buck out with goats instead of dragging to where could put it in a truck.

I agree, any packgoat beats none at all.
 
#18 ·
I'm hoping that she will post some here, another poster asked for them also. I am slowly doing my homework on lines.

Right now I have traded my one Alpine off, and have two Saanen wethers, a Saanen doeling and a yearling Saanen, I am hoping to find a nice Alpine buckling this winter or next spring, an even better addition would be one of Carolyns bucklings.

I am not going to breed either one of these does before next year now, it is looking more and more like moving to NE Wa come spring.
 
#19 ·
On the subject of multiple teats. They are seldom seen in the crosses. And, I have seen three teats on registerd dairy goats so you can't always be sure how things are going to work. The few I have seen are not an issue.

I am really bad about posting photos. But yes, the fast twitch muscle very slow twitch is important. Otherwise you have a weighlifter type goat, Boer, who can't get out of his own tracks. Too much fast twitch though and his weight bearing ability will be lessened and he will have tendon and ligament problems from carrying weight.
Our crosses tend to run about 1/3-1/4 meat goat and the rest dairy goat, ideally a cross between two types, such as saanen/alpine/ or saanen lamancha.

We started with an embryo import Boer who had somewhat longer legs than the average boer and bred him to the saanen doe, Helen, who started this whole thing. This cross produced Winter who is a bit short legged, half and half. It also roduced Lazlo who has really decent leg proportions. Fro there we went to some other boer crosses, experimenting. The 1/4 boer seems to be the right amount, but of course that doesn't mean every 1/4 boer will make a great packgoat. Someone commented on the attitude between the two types. That is much more a response to the type of raising as all the boers I've dealt with in this are very sweet. And of course saanens are too. But I like a little alpine in the mix as they have more endurance and bottom to them. Straight boers can be a little lazy due to having to work harder because of the short legs.
These goats were line bred extensively for several years, about 10 so far. Helen is 12 this year and had her last kids this year. She could probably do it again but she deserves a rest. Her daughter at 10 is still going strong and will probably get bred back to JR once more at least. JR is alpine/saanen and she is saanen/boer, 50-50% each.

Our crosses are between 220 and 275 average.
 
#21 ·
Going back to the original post, the reason I was wondering about the Kiko is the increased parasite resistance, I am still wondering about that,

One of the Alpines I am getting will stay a buck, and he has a Alpine wether for a buddy/roomie. The others are Saanens, two wethers and two does, if all goes well this fall will have some Alpine/Saanens next spring to work with.

Life goes on and its better with goats.
 
#22 ·
Update, as of right now have two Saanen wethers, one Saanen doeling, have one Alpine wether and an Alpine buckling and I expect will also have an Alpine doeling, all to work with over the winter. Will probably train the Buck along with the wethers, he may be a wether next summer and keep a cross buckling, we'll see.

As of now will be leaving here mid Sept and heading for Cusick Wa, and stopping in Idaho and looking at a couple possible places.

Life goes on !

And goes better with goats , and Icelandic Chickens !
 
#23 ·
On stamina, here's a description of our hike on Monday:

"Simply follow the trail. The first 1400 feet of ascent is a steep, but not troublesome, climb along the north side of Tolcate Canyon. After crossing Tolcate Creek, however, the trail steepens considerably. Climb another 2000 feet over merely 1.5 miles to Olympus's South shoulder and take in excellent views to the south and east. Most of the remaining 600 feet to the summit is gained by scrambling over straightforward class 3 terrain. Warning, the smooth quartzite rock that you'll encounter tends to be a bit slick when dry, murderously slippery when wet."

"Standard hiking gear. In the late summer months, no water is found along the route. However, as the route is so short (3.5 miles one way to the summit), you needn't worry too much. Rock shoes are unnecessary, though your footwear should grip well and have enough stability for the punishing, rocky descent."

Pig carried 20# of water, he's probably 150# now and just over a year old. He made the trip without complaint. He isn't as clever as Moe at figuring where to climb, but he was willing to try and followed my lead in the scramble. Moe would have just walked around me finding his own way, but then he climbs vertical horse panels.

Pig is one of SweetGoatMama's.
 
#24 ·
Hi Bob

and a good time was had by all !

Any pics of Pig??

I just received Carolyns' book today, a lot of good reading. I got another one a couple days ago on the hiking trails in the Sawtooth Mtns, over a 170 trails ranked from easy to very hard. I hope to find a lot more such over the next month or two.

Few if any of our trails here would be ranked difficult, unless they were part of one of the many marathons through here.
 
#25 ·
An update, I just added an Alpine feb. doeling to the crew, so will have 3 wethers, 2 Saanen and one Alpine, one Saanen doeling and one started Alpine doe, and an Alpine buckling, he's the youngest.

Yesterday and today have been surfing on Kiko breeders in the NW, I found two in Wa who have some very respectable longer legged bucks, one buckling looks like a Saanen , except for the ears. Both farms have both purebreds and crosses, I might be able to get a cross bucking next year to use for a couple years. We'll see. I have seen two quite shortlegged Kikos, not for me, but also see others that the legs are balanced with the back length. Very athletic looking goats.

I also read about a registered Kiko/Boer cross, sounds interesting, but the thing that caught my attention the most is 2 yr olds that weigh 200 lbs. These were Kikos , at the place with 200lb 2 yr olds. Its at the west end of the Columbian Basin so in reasonable driving distance of where I will be.

A lot of homework to do on all of this, but I have my basic start for now, after that we shall see.
 
#26 ·
Hi, everyone I really enjoy gleaming information from this site. I've been with agriculture my whole life (I'm really old ). I started raising pack goats about 6-7 yrs ago to help with my back while hiking, hunting etc. Unfortunately I haven't actually put a pack on one and hiked yet. My current packing breed I'm working on is percentage toggenburg, spanish, and boer.
I have some 1 1/2 year old's that's as large as their daddy.

So with that I don't see a problem putting kiko into the cross mix
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top