Kinders Instead of Nigerians?

Discussion in 'Beginners Goat Raising' started by MellonFriend, Sep 17, 2017.

  1. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    Alright so I didn't think I would be able to find a breeder of kinders around me, but it turns out I found one and I am now reconsidering my choice of Nigerians. So what would be the benefits on kinders over Nigerians? The thing that I realized is that it would probably be better to have the option of butchering since I don't live in an extremely agricultural area and having a alternative to selling kids as an options would probably be a benefit. So what are some pros and cons of kinders over Nigerians? And how much milk is common for them to produce?
     
  2. groovyoldlady

    groovyoldlady Goat Crazy!

    Jul 21, 2011
    Central Maine
    Kinders are a dual use breed, so you can milk 'em or use them for meat. However, they will consume more feed than Nigerians. Nigerians are not always easy to milk. I have Nigerian does with nice teats and you're still looking at using a thumb and two fingers to milk. I have not milked a Kinder, but I would imagine their udder and teats as being easier to milk. I'm not sure about milk fat from a Kinder; I do know that Nigerian milk is absolutely Heavenly tasting due to its high fat content.

    I guess it would more come down to your goals. What are you hoping to gan from your goats?
     
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  3. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    I really think that the kinders are going to be a more sustainable option for me. I am hoping to eventually work toward a more self sustainable lifestyle and having the option of meat seem more self sufficient than the Nigerians.

    I do think teat size is a problem with the Nigerians. I have large hands for a woman so I definitely think it would be good to have larger teats. The other thing is that I have read that kinders typically give more milk than the Nigerians and I think that I would prefer to have a little more milk than what the Nigerians give, especially since I thinks I will start out on once a day milking.
     
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  4. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    If you have never milked before, you'd be better to do twice a day milking. Gaining experience and also getting the milk out. Most new milkers don't get the milk all out so once a day and not being fully milked out will trigger them to drop production.
     
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  5. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    Thanks for that advice I didn't know that. I was figuring on maybe milking once a day until the kids are weaned (do the old separate the kids at night thing) and then twice a day after that. So should I still milk twice a day even before the kids are weaned?
     
  6. Suzanne_Tyler

    Suzanne_Tyler GreenTGoats

    Jul 19, 2014
    US
    I would probably just stick to once a day before the kids are weaned. I used to do twice a day while they were nursing kids, but I only got frustrated at how much work it took to get a tiny amount. The kids really keep em empty.
     
  7. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    If kids are on, you would want to do once a day milking. Once kids are weaned you want to do twice a day milking.
     
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  8. groovyoldlady

    groovyoldlady Goat Crazy!

    Jul 21, 2011
    Central Maine
    Hurray for Kinders! Please make sure we get to see photos of your new fur-babies once you get them!
     
  9. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    Oh I will don't worry!
     
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  10. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    @MellonFriend

    By the way, does your username reflect that you are a friend of mellons, or that you are a friend who happens to be a mellon? Or do you wish that to be your mystique and you want us to read into it and thus reveal how our own psyches work??????

    Trust me, you don't want to know.

    But, back to serious goat issues....

    1st. Why can't you eat NDs?

    2nd. Which breed has the most availability to have QUALITY genetic diversity close to you. You mentioned you have A, repeat, A breeder close to you. Is that breeder providing quality? Does that breeder have the ability to continue to help prevent inbreeding? How close is another supplier of QUALITY genetic diversity and are you willing to travel or ship to interact?

    (I keep stressing QUALITY, because where I am, NDs are almost a dime a dozen, and the quality tends to hover below the floor. So access does help, but it does not guarantee good things you want to pass along)

    3rd. Teat length and orifice size varies even more in Kinders than in NDs. And as you know, NDs vary a lot. So you still have to be careful about your genetics, and it can be much harder to improve when you have A supply of genetic material close by you. Again, are you willing to start here, then travel or ship to improve?

    4th. Do you have the passion for the breed that would carry you over the difficulties involved in a more restricted genetic area? Maybe you do, and if so, more power to you. We need people with passion and determination like @catharina I hope you are one of them, because making a potentially awesome breed, like Kinders, more available to the people they could really benefit, is doing good work.

    But....But.... it is not necessarily AS sustainable, as working with a more common-to-your-area breed (or even type) and tweaking it to fit your farm and your needs. And given that is one of your big issues, you have to evaluate that as well. Because....I don't see a reason right off the bat for why Kinders are more sustainable than NDs. Because......

    5th. Why can't you eat NDs?

    Full circle. I love both breeds. And if your ultimate answer is...I want Kinders because I prefer Kinders.... There is nothing more to say. Go Forth, you Friend of Mellons, and propagate Kinders with Glee and Abandon!
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  11. IHEARTGOATS

    IHEARTGOATS Well-Known Member

    Jun 14, 2016
    Zebulon, NC
    Very good points
    I know that in her area there are some really high quality Nigerians

    And the answer to questions 1 and 5 Nigerians are quite tasty
     
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  12. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    I so very wish I could double or quadruple like this post.

    To answer your first question. Not only am I a friend to melons, but there is more to it. I have waited very long for someone to ask me about my name, and you are the first to do so. It has its origins in Lord of the Rings. In the book the elven word for friend is mellon. So one day I was just messing around on a chalk board and drew my avatar picture. And I knew it would be perfect as a persona. It's what I use for almost all the websites where I need an avatar. I did not intend it as a test of human psyche, but a test of wit. To see who could catch the misspelling of melon and weed out any true Lord of the Rings fans who would understand the visual pun.

    Now on to the goat side of things. I have heard (and by that I mean read) that NDs don't have a lot of meat on them and that after butchering your not left with enough meat to warrant the effort that goes into the butchering process.

    I do have more than one kinder breeder within range. I just found one to be more favorable than the other. These people were the first of the people I have contacted to indicate that they like to screen their buyers before selling as well as offer me a wealth of information they thought would be helpful for a first time owner.
    Here is the link to their website if you'd like to judge them for yourself:http://www.blackmountainkinders.com/

    I also feel like the amount of milk the kinders give will better suit my needs.

    As far as genetic betterment. I definitely will be waiting to purchase a buck until I know in what areas my does are lacking.

    I do think that my answer does come down to I prefer kinders. And in actuality when I first started looking into goats kinders were my first choice.
     
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  13. mariarose

    mariarose Well-Known Member

    Fair enough. Kinders it is.

    Well, I let you down on wit... I am not a LOTR fan... and though I did catch the mellon/melon thing, I see so many misspellings that now I only bring them up if clarifications can help.

    Good luck with the Kinders!
     
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  14. singinggoatgirl

    singinggoatgirl Well-Known Member

    Apr 13, 2016
    the deep south
    I'm a LOTR fan, and I understood! Love your avatar and name!

    Not trying to sway you, as you like Kinders. More power to you. Just saying that people butcher rabbits for meat and think it is worthwhile. While Nigerians are not "beefy" by any means, Nigerians have more meat than a rabbit...
     
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  15. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    Hooray! Another Middle-Earthen!

    That's true. Very true. I'm probably going to go with kinders because their amount of milk production suits me better. But hey, I'm not going to rule out anything at this point. Maybe somewhere along the line I'll try Nigerians too.
     
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