LaMancha with parrot mouth - keep or cull?

1216 Views 18 Replies 11 Participants Last post by klex, May 17, 2022

klex

Discussion Starter · May 14, 2022

Hello everyone,

We just received a 2-month old LaMancha mix buckling yesterday who unfortunately has a parrot mouth. Pictures attached.

I'll spare you the details of how he ended up with us, in short the previous owner lied and I, being a first time goat buyer, wasn't able to recognise the red flags. I feel like an idiot and I've learned my lesson.

Back to the buckling. His front teeth are obviously not in the correct place, his molars however seem to be fine. No sign of a cleft palate. He can chew without issue, he's not spilling his cud. The problem is his grazing, he's obviously having trouble biting off grass - not ideal as we run a grazing project. Allegedly the previous owner was feeding him pellets in addition to hay, which is why he's at a healthy weight.

My question now is, what do we do with him?Should we let the owner know that she needs to come back and get him, or ask for some money back and keep him? Should we cull him?

LaManchas are virtually impossible to come by where I live (EU), and apart from his mouth his conformation seems great, as does his temperament. We never planned on breeding him, I wanted to have him as a potential pack goat, which I'm assuming won't be possible now.

Any guidance would be much appreciated. I've been left saddened by this experience and it isn't helping my general distrust of people.

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ksalvagno

· #2 · May 14, 2022

He sure does. Unfortunately you will have to make a hard choice unless you don't mind keeping him as a pet. You certainly can always see if the seller would take him back or refund some money.

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Tanya

· #3 · May 14, 2022

To be kind I would kull. He seems to be such a sweet boy

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KY Goat Girl

· #4 · May 14, 2022

I agree with culling him.

Also, his ears are longer than an average Lamancha. Or maybe it’s just the pictures.

I’m really don’t know since I don’t have experience with Lamanchas.

Reactions: 2

klex

Discussion Starter · #5 · May 14, 2022

Thank you for your replies. It's all such a shame, he's incredibly sweet and friendly. Couple minutes after I first met him, he came right over to me and fell asleep with his head in my lap. 💔

@KY Goat Girl, he's a LaMancha/Czech Brown cross, hence the longer ears!

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Boadicea

· #6 · May 14, 2022

I had a nubian doe who I bought bred. She gave birth to two doelings who were both deformed. One had severe parrot jaw and one had severe bulldog jaw. They also has neurological issues. Come to find out, she was bred to her brother... We made the decision to cull both and sell the doe (she was not the best temperament). Anyway- we have another Nubian doe that came to us as an adult that had bulldog jaw (the opposite of parrot jaw- where the lower jaw sticks out farther). It’s not severe but she has constant dietary issues, abnormal poo, digestion issues, and takes a very long time to eat. You can tell it’s harder for her. If I were you, I’d cull. It’s not the easy answer but it’s a responsible one. He looks like such a sweet goat! I hope you find a good replacement. And it’s not a bad idea to reach out to the breeder- what are they going to say, no?

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Jessica84

· #7 · May 14, 2022

You can try contacting the breeder to come get him but if they were shady to start with I’m sure that will be a dead end. He should not keep his testicles though. You can cull him or keep him as a pet or a companion. Wethers do come in so very handy for buddies. He could go in with your future buck to keep him company, a doe for whatever reason needs to be apart from the herd, or even a baby sitter during weaning time. But as you are noticing the biggest issue with a parrot mouth is grazing so he will need to be fed hay.
I’m very sorry you are having to even make this choice. Shame on the breeder

Reactions: 4

klex

Discussion Starter · #8 · May 14, 2022

Your kind replies to this post are helping me very much, so thank you. It's an incredibly tough decision but ultimately I feel like there is too much of a risk of invisible issues that come along with the parrot mouth as @Boadicea mentioned. If nothing else this is a learning experience, and I am never making this mistake again.

We are going to try and get in contact with the breeder to take him back. When she was handing him over she was very emotional about how he is so friendly and how she would love to keep him (I don't trust her at all). She may just be severely misguided, but that doesn't excuse any of this. There's no way she didn't know about the severity of the deformity.

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klex

Discussion Starter · #9 · May 14, 2022

Not the first goat experience I wanted, but that's life. Hopefully now the next one will be all the better as I will be much more careful.

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klex

Discussion Starter · #10 · May 14, 2022

Well it seems there is already an update, the original owner has agreed to take the buckling back on Monday and return our money.
She claims he's just nervous from moving and that's why he's not grazing well (lol). Let's hope she keeps her word.

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KY Goat Girl

· #11 · May 14, 2022

klex said:
@KY Goat Girl, he's a LaMancha/Czech Brown cross, hence the longer ears!

Oh ok. I’ve never heard of that breed.

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klex

Discussion Starter · #12 · May 14, 2022

We have two breeds here (Czech Brown and Czech White) that are specific to the country. I don't think they're very well known, but they are lovely!

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happybleats

· #13 · May 14, 2022

The white look like Saanen. Both are very pretty. I have lamacha and ears are tiny. But mixed can have longer ears.
Here is one of my saanen and one lamacha.

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klex

Discussion Starter · #14 · May 14, 2022

happybleats said:
The white look like Saanen. Both are very pretty. I have lamacha and ears are tiny. But mixed can have longer ears.
Here is one of my saanen and one lamacha.

This is why I love posting here - eventually someone shows you pictures of their goats

The coloration on the LaMancha is stunning!

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Lil Boogie

· #15 · May 15, 2022

Me, personally, would eat him. But I know your not gonna do that as you look at him as a sweet pet, which is fine! But you need to make a decision weather your gonna wether him and keep as a pet or sell him as a pet. Either way I would castrate him. You don't want him passing that on.

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21goaties

· #16 · May 15, 2022

I would get him neutered and keep him

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toth boer goats

· #17 · May 15, 2022

Glad the original owner is taking him back and giving your money back.

I am so sorry you were dealt that.
Prayers from here on out things will go good for you.

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littleheathens

· #18 · May 17, 2022

We had a ram lamb born with an overbite this year. Not this extreme, and just raised for meat. Maybe I should start a new thread but I wondered if you would stop breeding the mom that produces this. It might be from the ram's side...any wisdom on how this gets passed down?

Reactions: 1

klex

Discussion Starter · #19 · May 17, 2022

littleheathens said:
We had a ram lamb born with an overbite this year. Not this extreme, and just raised for meat. Maybe I should start a new thread but I wondered if you would stop breeding the mom that produces this. It might be from the ram's side...any wisdom on how this gets passed down?

Hi! From what I've read about it, there doesn't seem to be a clear consensus on what causes parrot mouth. There's also little to no research out there on parrot mouth in goats specifically, so I'm assuming a lot of the information is taken from how the defect forms in other animals.

Parrot mouth may be genetic, or it may be caused by external factors, we don't know for sure yet. On the genetics side of things, it would seem that parrot mouth is a recessive trait, meaning it only appears when both parents carry the parrot mouth gene. The recommendation in that case is to get rid of both the sire and dam and to wether/cull the parrot mouth offspring to prevent the trait from reoccuring. It may also be possible to keep breeding one of the two parents (?), but it seems most folks opt to get rid of all the affected animals as there will always be a risk of the defect reappearing.

All the above information is taken from threads here on GoatSpot, so be sure to search for "parrot mouth" on here and do your own research!

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