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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Ok, this is not me. My herd has actually been doing really well. However, the place I work at is having issues. They have sheep and lambs that people can feed. I am not in that area. I don't agree with feeding them all the grain they get and they have had quite a few issues with their older sheep and goats getting bloat. They are more cautious now. Not with the lambs/kids though.

You do NOT want to hear my opionions on the place they get many of their animals/sheep and goats from. My sister and I(both work at the same place) are going to be calling on them as soon as we leave this year. They are awful.

I guess 3 years ago right before my sister started working there, all the baby sheep and goats they got from there dropped dead. The farm owner culled their entire herd of adults. The next year, 2 years ago(when my sister started/first year after the cull) they didn't lose any. Last year, they lost a few, I treated a few my sister brought to me. This year, I started working, they lost 1 a few days after they got them. They said they were weaned but it was very clear many were less than 4 weeks old(size, umbilical cords) one was even newborn! He was itty bity, teeth barely erupted, and still had a wet umbilical. We put many on a bottle, watched the others close.

Now, the issues. One lamb dropped dead about 5 weeks ago. First of the year. Was perfectly fine then just collapsed. It was 102 that day. We figured heat stroke. Many others started looking bad that day. Again, I figure(ed) heat related. Many were lethargic, panting, etc.

From there, many lambs started to lose weight. Some were anemic, I dewormed all. We lost 3 more a few weeks after. They were very bloated and showed some signs of Clostridium bacterias upon a necropsy I did. Found they weren't vaccinated so we did that. Another lamb died at my home, I had him to provide care, he was leaking rumen contents from his mouth(though only when chewing cud) and seemed ok. He was underweight no scours. Didn't seem bloated just died.

Now, to skip to what is going on now... We have 4 lambs that just start drooling/leaking rumen contents/salive when chewing their cud. They still eat and seem ok. We have 15-20 more that are fine, though always look a bit bloated. Many are underweight despite getting loads of grain, and free choice hay 24/7. Some much worse than other. About 8 are good weights and seem healthy aside from some scours at one point a few weeks ago. The onces leaking from their mouths have been locked in a barn with just grass hay. Temps of most/all the lambs ranged from 103.5-105!! Average was 103.8-104.5. Even when it
wasn't crazy hot out. Another strange thing is that the ones leaking also have super dark, brown teeth. They should be white at this age(between 6 weeks and 3 months old). I have been curious about watery mouth disease but would they be too old? I want to treat them all with Pen G. I plan to do so this week. A vet was out today, he said acidosis. I would agree with him, but the lambs in the barn haven't had grain in over 2 weeks. They are not very bloated. He said just give them pro bios and sodium bicarbonate. We have been. Vet took a fecal and thats it.


I am stumped. Wanted some more opinions. I don't believe it is acidosis. He is a cattle vet, so I don't expect him to know as much for goats. That doesn't explain the temp and I don't think they would have it for over 2 weeks and not be dead.

I can try and get some more pictures this is the only one I have. They literally drip saliva/cud whenever they start chewing. Sorry for the long post! Window Sky Carnivore Dog breed Tints and shades
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I’m glad to see all is well at your place! 😁

About the others I have no clue ...I hope someone does!🤷‍♀️
Me too! Last lab results for the herd came back was great news! We should have a great kidding season next year. Everyone is looking absolutely amazing! I am so happy. Just been busy at work to offset costs.

I hope so. Usually I wouldn't treat with antibiotics without knowing at least somewhat. But with many having 104.5+ temps(taken with 2 different thermometers) mixed with some of the other things makes me think some kind of infection. So I want to treat all the high temp ones. It was only 80° out when we took temps so I don't think that was high enough to make a difference.
 

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Me too! Last lab results for the herd came back was great news! We should have a great kidding season next year. Everyone is looking absolutely amazing! I am so happy. Just been busy at work to offset costs.

I hope so. Usually I wouldn't treat with antibiotics without knowing at least somewhat. But with many having 104.5+ temps(taken with 2 different thermometers) mixed with some of the other things makes me think some kind of infection. So I want to treat all the high temp ones. It was only 80° out when we took temps so I don't think that was high enough to make a difference.
YAY!
Could they of gotten into or given something moldy or toxic? I’d be worried about the fevers too, can the vet do blood work on one to see what it shows? There would be an elevated WBC (white blood cell) count for infections. It’s a red top tube and quick test.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
YAY!
Could they of gotten into or given something moldy or toxic? I’d be worried about the fevers too, can the vet do blood work on one to see what it shows? There would be an elevated WBC (white blood cell) count for infections. It’s a red top tube and quick test.
That was one thought of mine. Before 3 of them passed away they got down to feeding hay with slight mold. The grain was fine. I did check, it was new and ok. They also had a loose mineral with copper out and we removed it immediately. That was about 4 weeks ago. The new hay is clean.

Edited to add
I can ask. They have a second vet coming out in a few days. This one was just the first they could get out(mainly for their horses but they had him look at the lambs). This one will be a mainly cattle vet but has looked at camels and other exotic livestock(why they want her). Doesn't do many goats or sheep but they are going to have her look at them.
 

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Do they always get their sheep from the same place? If so and you're always getting bad turnouts every year i'd say start by getting a new place to buy sheep from. . . lol

If they havent had grain what have they had? just hay? have they been eating and drinking?

Is there any chance the hay is bad? what i would do with the ones locked in the barn all day is take them outside after the sun sets when its cooler out but before it gets dark out and just let them get fresh air and grass, but closely monitor them.
The place they get them from may have a bad ram, i wonder how often they switch them out.. i also wonder if everybody that gets lambs from the place you do have problems?
 

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That was one thought of mine. Before 3 of them passed away they got down to feeding hay with slight mold. The grain was fine. I did check, it was new and ok. They also had a loose mineral with copper out and we removed it immediately. That was about 4 weeks ago. The new hay is clean.

Edited to add
I can ask. They have a second vet coming out in a few days. This one was just the first they could get out(mainly for their horses but they had him look at the lambs). This one will be a mainly cattle vet but has looked at camels and other exotic livestock(why they want her). Doesn't do many goats or sheep but they are going to have her look at them.
what grain have they been feeding them?
 

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well lets start with the basics.
Every lamb that comes on the place should be vaccinated. I recommend Covaxin 8. I use one cc for all my lambs under 20 lbs. follow the buster shot recommendations for lambs over 20 lbs. That will take care of over eating disease. and a slew of other things.
Water mouth in lambs 5 days or less. they do not survive prevention feed colostrum with in 6 hours of birth. I don't think that is your problem
What you are describing Fits the symptoms of Listeriosis.
Symptoms of Listeriosis include depression, loss of appetite, fever, lack of coordination, salivation, facial paralysis, and circling.
sorry but prevention is your best hope. once the lambs have it they are toast.
you also describe symptoms of hay belly.
Hay belly is often found in bottle fed lambs. They do not have there mother to spit there cud on the ground so the lambs can eat it. this is how lambs get there rumands started. to help bottle babbies start there rumands, feed some brewers yeast in there grain. i add some vegitable oil to the grain so the yeast will stick to the grain. if the lambs take a boddle add the yeast to there milk.

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Watery mouth is a bacterial infection caused by E coli which affects new born lambs. ... When infection occurs, the bacteria colonises in the guts where it rapidly multiplies. Clinical signs include lethargy, a high temperature, drooling, constipation and a distended abdomen
 

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When we raised sheep, we learned quick that they are not goats..
Once down it's a miracle at best to recover them. :(
Along with listeriosis, pneumonia can also cause many of these symptoms. Cleaning all bedding, feeders, hay baskets ect with a good disinfectant, make sure hay, feed and minerals are fresh and mold free. All food needs to be off the ground. Water is fresh and clean. This will help prevent listeriosis. For pneumonia prevention, take temps often..watch for any depression, off feed ect. Catch it early and have antibiotics on hand. Give b complex daily when they first arrive for a week. Add daily probiotics and garlic. These help boost immune system to help decrease cases.
All these steps can help regardless of what you're dealing with. It's a bit of work but helps decrease illness and loss. And as mention..send out the next dead lamb for full necropsy. Tissue and blood testing..the works. You need answers.


Best wishes
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Do they always get their sheep from the same place? If so and you're always getting bad turnouts every year i'd say start by getting a new place to buy sheep from. . . lol

If they havent had grain what have they had? just hay? have they been eating and drinking?

Is there any chance the hay is bad? what i would do with the ones locked in the barn all day is take them outside after the sun sets when its cooler out but before it gets dark out and just let them get fresh air and grass, but closely monitor them.
The place they get them from may have a bad ram, i wonder how often they switch them out.. i also wonder if everybody that gets lambs from the place you do have problems?
Yes, they do. Same place. They lost every single kid and lamb 4 years ago. The owner of the farm they purchase the lambs/kids from culled the entire herd(they were told) The year after that they had no issues with any of the kids/lambs. Last year they had a couple but nothing serious 95% were fine. This year they have already lost, I think 6 now. With 4 under supervision in the barn, and every single one outside is being watched with many under very close watch(Losing weight, lethargic, very high temps).

Sadly, I doubt they will buy elsewhere. They get almost everything from them. Sheep, goats, donkeys, horses, zebra, fish, rabbits, and chickens for their exotics. The place they get them from is their sister farm. Though they have no care in animal welfare. All they do is pump babies out of everyone. They posted pictures of their sheep on their public facebook and their is clearly a few very ill animals. And that is just what they share in public! Imagine what is behind closed doors.

They all have gotten grain at one point. The ones in the barn however have not had any in over 2 weeks. They all get 24/7 grass hay. Pens, water, and hay are fully cleaned every morning. Somethimes twice a day. The hay they have now is 2021, first cutting. I checked several bales and this new stuff seems good and clean. No dust, visable mold, and smells good.

I do wonder that too. Many of the lambs we have have underbites and just don't look right. The goats too. Probably lots of inbreeding and bad genetics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
well lets start with the basics.
Every lamb that comes on the place should be vaccinated. I recommend Covaxin 8. I use one cc for all my lambs under 20 lbs. follow the buster shot recommendations for lambs over 20 lbs. That will take care of over eating disease. and a slew of other things.
Water mouth in lambs 5 days or less. they do not survive prevention feed colostrum with in 6 hours of birth. I don't think that is your problem
What you are describing Fits the symptoms of Listeriosis.
Symptoms of Listeriosis include depression, loss of appetite, fever, lack of coordination, salivation, facial paralysis, and circling.
sorry but prevention is your best hope. once the lambs have it they are toast.
you also describe symptoms of hay belly.
Hay belly is often found in bottle fed lambs. They do not have there mother to spit there cud on the ground so the lambs can eat it. this is how lambs get there rumands started. to help bottle babbies start there rumands, feed some brewers yeast in there grain. i add some vegitable oil to the grain so the yeast will stick to the grain. if the lambs take a boddle add the yeast to there milk.

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Absolutely right. Sadly, the owner of the farm they get them from has no care for his animals. Except the expensive ones. We did vaccinate all the ones we have there with CDT. I will look into the covaxin.

I thought about listeriosis too. That was when I discover the hay they were feeding had slight mold. They tossed the hay 4 weeks ago and got the brand new stuff. That is clean. I just don't think it would last over 4 weeks without the lambs dying by now.

Hay belly. Didn't think of that one. It would make sense. The farm we got them from said they were weaned. Clearly very few, if any, were. They all still had umbilical cords(I have never/very rarley see that on sheep/goats older than 6 weeks. And size put most at around 5-6 weeks. Some were clearly leas than 1 weeks. Same woth their goats. The gave them buckling that did not even have horns poking through, had umbilicals, and were smaller than my 3 week old kids. We have a few on a bottle, the other we just watched close since they were nibbling and eating hay/grain. I will get them some yeast though!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Here are some pictures of the ones I have at my home(in a quarantine pen)

I only have 3 at the moment. I will get some of the others at work tomorrow.
Ewe lamb. She has an underbite. They were going to give her back to the place they got her from to put her down but I purchased her. She has an underbite, lost weight, and when I got her she would fall over and no be able to get back up. I treated with Bo-Se, antibiotics(she had a temp and runny nose), pro bios, and B-complex. She is doing better now.
Plant Sheep Sheep Grass Terrestrial animal


Ewe lamb. She has an underbite. Is lethargic. Losing weight(we did deworm everybody), just looks strange. Maybe normal for a sheep. I don't know. I'm still very much learning about them. I brought her here about 3 days ago. They got her about 3 weeks ago with their other new lambs. She is on a bottle.
Eye Goat Working animal Fawn Goat-antelope
Vertebrate Working animal Mammal Camelid Sheep
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
There ia one other thing that it could be Acidosis I never feed grain to my sheep so i have no experience with it.
That is what the first vet said as well. However, the ones leaking from the mouth/bad one are not and have not had grain in 2 weeks. I have dealt with acidosis in goats twice. Both died within 48 hours. It has been about 3 weeks since these sheep started leaking from the mouth.
 

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Have you addressed coccidia? With all the stress..she may need treatment.

Ugh. I thought I sent this a few days ago!!
 
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