Leasing out your buck-Questions

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by K-Ro, Nov 10, 2007.

  1. K-Ro

    K-Ro New Member

    371
    Oct 13, 2007
    Texas
    I have been contacted by a family that would like to lease my buck for 6 weeks for their 8 does.

    What would you charge for this (ADGA PB French Alpine buck and they have ADGA PB does). Around here if they bring the does to us it is $50 a doe and a $1 a day doe care. But if I let him go there for 6 weeks what would be a good price?

    What questions do I need to ask them and I definitely need something in writing regarding who owns him and how long we are leasing him, etc.

    I know there are some of you who have leased out a buck and some who 'rented' one, please share how it all works.

    Thanks
     
  2. PixieDustHollow

    PixieDustHollow New Member

    98
    Oct 4, 2007
    Delaware
    The buck I borrowed was from a family friend, there was no charge and no contract, lol. So I can't help you with previous experience.

    However, I would want a contract if I was leasing out registered stock. Simple stuff like when you took him over, what type of health he was in, when you will get him back, if one doesn't settle(what you will do), any care they must provide, what his fertility rate is(how many breedings v. non-takes), etc. I also would ask to inspect the property he would be at and I would want to know who is caring for him(it could be a kid that doesn't want to(mommy makes him/her) lol).
    I would also put something in the contract about the right to refuse if a doe seems ill.

    These kids would be registered, correct? Wouldn't your registry have guidelines for that kind of thing? Like breeding memos?

    Hmm, I edit with more as I think of them.
     

  3. getchagoat (Julie)

    getchagoat (Julie) New Member

    603
    Oct 5, 2007
    Waco, KY
    I'd put the following in a lease agreement:

    both parties names, names of farms if applicable
    current date, drop off date, pick up date
    address, county of farm going to
    number of does in with the buck
    if they have pastures without shelter, I'd say has to be in one with shelter
    if you normally feed your buck grain, say how much so they don't overload him and so that he has enough to keep up with the job
    I'd ask for pick of the kids
    what recent illnesses have been on their farm
    procedure if something medical comes up with him (your info, then your vet's)
    not to administer any medicine (prescription or non-prescription) without your knowledge
    right to go see the buck anytime, phoning in advance

    That's for someone I did not know. A lady up the road wants to use our buck for her 4 does. We are asking her to bring them here so we can keep an eye on everyone since she has had them a short time and not dealt with any medical issues (thank goodness). We won't have a contract because we know her.
     
  4. K-Ro

    K-Ro New Member

    371
    Oct 13, 2007
    Texas
    Thanks. I am going to look in the ADGA book and see what if any info is in there.

    I do not personally know these folks, but turns out to be they bought their does from the same farm I did, so I am asking the breeder about them. I think everything will be ok, I just want to cover all my bases.

    I am asking about their fencing, shelter, where he will be penned or running with does. What they feed, etc. what is available to the goats at all times. And telling them what he has here at all times.

    I am going to have a fecal run on him first as we had some tapeworm issues earlier and I don't want to send that to someone else's farm if at all possible.

    So I will add vet info and medicine so that if something does come up they will get a hold of me. They are almost 2 hours away from me, but I do have 'extended' family in the same town that can check on things if the need arises.
     
  5. fcnubian

    fcnubian New Member

    764
    Oct 22, 2007
    Well this is just me but I wouldn't lease out my buck...He won't be leaving my property. He was an expensive buck and I wont take any chances. There is only one farm he'd leave to go to and that is the farm he came from.

    Definately have a contract with them. And visit their place before taking the buck to see what it looks like. And how the does looks.

    Ask if you can stop by ANY time to see him.

    Just read the last bit of your post...2 hours is quite a distance and I wouldn't be comfortable sending my buck that far. Its good that you have others able to check on him if need be.


    Why don't they want to bring the does to him?
     
  6. fritzie

    fritzie New Member

    751
    Oct 6, 2007
    TENN
    ADGA has a buck lease form on there site. i have only leased out a buck once & that is the buck that Kristen has. the only reason i let him go is because i know how they take care of there animals & the need to get the 3 does they bought from me bred. i would not lease a buck to any one i didn't know. weather you know them or not any thing can happen but atleast if you know them & that they know goats & know when is coming down with some thing it is better. as for the price. well i would charge the stud fee & that is all. because they are the ones feeding & taking care of him. just my opinion.
     
  7. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    coming from someone who doesnt own a buck this is how I see it:

    My does do better in their surroundings
    I dont have to run them back again if they didn't settle the first time.
    I would be willing to show picture proof if asked of where he would be staying and even show them the property and my feeding rutine if asked.
    I would be willing to sign something as mentioned by Julie. And I would also add in about who is responsible if he does come down sick due to cercumstances beyond my control.
    I would be willing to pick up the buck and return him - unless the owner wanted to do that herself to be able to see the property.
    I would want to know that I had a second breeding if the first didnt' take.
    I would pay for the bucks services half when he first arrived and the other half after I know the deed was done.
    If the does prove to not settled for a second breeding time I wouldn't ask for a third try unless agreed upon by the bucks owner due to cercomstances that proved she wasn't ready to breed etc.
    I would provide my own personal health records for my does if asked.


    I guess that is the stuff I would cover either in a contract or just through talking to her.

    I personally suggest talking to her on the phone priar to the arangement if everything has been over e-mail so far. People easily hide behind the computer so a phone call will make things more personal and you can gage her attitude much better.

    Just my point of view coming from someone who would be leasing the buck.
     
  8. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    Julie's contract is much the same as my breeders, however there was no pick of kids. There was also a stipulation that the buck would be used for my does only, along with his feeding instructions, and I would provide his hay & grain, as well as "reasonable shelter"
    There was an option of $3 pr day per doe or a flat $100 for unlimited number of does for one month.
    As for the sickness or injury clause, I was to contact her immediatly and go from there.
    The contract was one page, simple to understand and one line for mutual agreement ie leaser & leasee with the dates.
    This is someone who has done goat business with me for a few yrs now, this was our first year to lease a buck.

    edited to add..there are only a few people she is willing to lease a buck to, and she was the one who suggested it. Personally I would not lease unless I knew and trusted the potential leasee.
     
  9. getchagoat (Julie)

    getchagoat (Julie) New Member

    603
    Oct 5, 2007
    Waco, KY
    I didn't see the part about 2 hours away. I couldn't do it. My bucks are too expensive to go that far. There is only one lady I would do that with that is an hour away and she's the breeder of one of our bucks. She offered us to use on of hers on some girls, and it made us too nervous and she understood.
     
  10. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    K-RO, I would NEVER EVER EVER let my buck go someplace else. If they want their 8 does bred, then they should bring them to you. Like you, I charge by the doe. I also would never let them go because lets face it, no one is ever going to take care of you buck like you do.
    Now I say that but I do have a couple friends that we will trade our bucks, to each other. She takes mine and I take hers. But we know each other really well, and we are both trading.
    My Opinion, DO NOT LET HIM GO

    Good Luck.
     
  11. K-Ro

    K-Ro New Member

    371
    Oct 13, 2007
    Texas
    Thanks a bunch for all the advice.

    I think I am keeping my boy home. Aside from being an over protective parent, my breeder pointed out other factors, like the benefit of keeping a closed heard, CAE, Johnes testing etc...

    And the distance was a concern to me as I would want to be onhand if something happened to my 'stinky' boy.

    So thanks again everyone.
     
  12. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I understand the concerns made but I am curious how do you all expect people like myself to get their does bred?

    I mean you wouldn't recomend I leave my does that far away! I wouldn't do that - but I can't own a buck period.


    just curious thats all.
     
  13. Laurel_Haven

    Laurel_Haven New Member

    768
    Oct 19, 2007
    South Carolina
    I used to feel as many of you all do, and once said I would NEVER lease out a buck of mine. But I changed my point of view and just recently leased out a young buck to a family that has three 2-3 year old does that they want bred but do not want to own a buck, and can not own a buck. I wanted to help but did not want to bring other goats onto my property. I wanted to help this family as they want their milk for consumption in the future.
    So what we did was scheduled an appointment to check out their property where our buck will be housed and I had my vet come along at the expense of the family wanting to lease this buck. He checked over all 3 does, found them to be in excellent physical condition, took blood samples, which were sent in to be tested for diseases. After all the tests came back Negative. I then agreed to lease the buck to them at what they agreed upon $100 per month. They have had this buck for 2 months now, and will be bringing him back home as soon as they feel he has done his deed and all the girls are bred. We do have a written contract that he must be brought home after 3 months either way.
    Upon his arrival home he will be quarantined, vet checked at our expense. If he is not found to be in perfect health as he was upon leaving, and we feel he will not be able to rejoin our herd or be sold, they will then owe me for the value of this buck.
    This is the first time I have ever leased out a buck, but I know this family, they live very close to us, all tested healthy and disease free, and they agreed upon all conditions we put before them.
    This is just the way we found that worked for us. This was a special situation though, normally I do not or have I ever leased out a buck before. But so far I have had no problems. But I live so close I occasionally stop in to see how he is doing and he seems to be very well.
    Many people who have does can not own bucks or do not want to own a buck, and this is the only way they can have them bred. I would not lease out a buck to just anyone, but for the right person I would consider it again, I am glad we could do this for them as now they get to experience the joy’s of kidding, use the milk for their families, and we helped make this happen!
    But I do understand your concerns, as they are the same as my own. It just has to be done properly, with previsit's to their farm, blood tests, and it just has to feel right at the time. A lot of hassle for some, but worth your own herd's health and security. If it doesn't feel right to you, don't do it!
    Have a great day everyone!
    Tina
     
  14. Muddy Creek Farm

    Muddy Creek Farm New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Keokuk, Iowa
    Who did you lease out? I don't think I would lease them out, maybe to someone I know and trust, like you said.
     
  15. Laurel_Haven

    Laurel_Haven New Member

    768
    Oct 19, 2007
    South Carolina
    Well I wasn't sure if we were going to do it or not, but we know them very well and they have the same management beliefs as we do, actually we share the same vet and he felt comfortable since he has dealt with them for the past two years so we agreed upon it. Wouldn't do it for just anyone and I do not do allow goats to be brought here to be bred, so it was the only way to help them out.
    BTW it was Charles, they had a liking to him, but couldn't house him forever, so he is now off happily breeding three girls!!! :lol:
    I will more than likely be sell him this Spring though and have no intentions of leasing out my MAIN MEN! They are just to valuable to me.
    Tina
     
  16. Muddy Creek Farm

    Muddy Creek Farm New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Keokuk, Iowa
    I wouldn't lease my "main men" out either :shock:
     
  17. ksacres

    ksacres New Member

    161
    Oct 30, 2007
    San Antonio Texas
    I think it just depends on your comfort level with the person. One of my friends and I traded bucks for a few months, but I know she takes good care of her animals, and she only lives about 10 minutes away. I probably wouldn't lease on out to a complete stranger, unless they were willing to have their entire herd tested for all the major diseases right before they leased him.
     
  18. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    That is what we do. Stacie, I do totally understand what you are saying, but if someone wants to use by buck for services, then they have to bring them to me wit ha very recent CAE, CL negative test. Now the test is for those that I do not know, if I know you and your herd practice and I show against you, and I know how your herd is, then they do not have to have the test. That is why I decided to go ahead and keep some bucks. I do understand that you can not have any bucks, but then you will have to go the the buck.
     
  19. fritzie

    fritzie New Member

    751
    Oct 6, 2007
    TENN
    stacy i understand what you are saying. i would lease again as long as i knew that the person taking the buck knew about goats & what to watch for if they go off at all. when i first started in alpines the cassettes let me take a buck to use only on my does(i later bought him) but i had bought 4 does from them. with the knowledge that you have about goats i would not have aproblum with letting you take a buck. i guess it is how well you know the person & how they take care of there animals. as far as distance my buck is 3 to 4 hrs away but i have faith & trust kristen with him.
    i agree about not taking the does to him. if it is a long drive & they are stressed out they won't bred any way.
     
  20. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    boy I am greatful that the bucks I am using don't have owners that require all that testing.

    It would be a waste to test unregistered mix pygmies since you can't get enough for them to pay you back even for the testing. Testing is like 100.00 per test per goat around here!!!

    And if I ever own my own buck one day I will lease him out to be giving to others as I was treated.

    It is just my way I guess having been in this situation all my 10+ years of raising goats.