LGD Problem...

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by Perfect7, Feb 6, 2011.

  1. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    Hey, everyone! I'm hoping there is a solution before I have to sell one of my GP's. We have two, both sisters born August 2009. Tueter was great with the goats until we bought her sister Berger about 3 months ago. Berger has even more natural instinct with the goats and is more mature. Tueter likes to rough house and play, and the dogs always play with each other (while doing an excellent job of staying with the goats wherever they are). I never worry about my goats now but...
    The last two months Tueter has begun to treat the goats like her sister by trying to rough house with them. She especially grabs ahold of their front leg and tugs, shakes. She hasn't drawn blood or seriously injured anyone but my goats end up limping. Tonight was the 4th goat, so Tueter is now locked up in a birthing stall. There was also slobber on the goat's neck (no injuries there).
    I work all day and the goats have run of 10 acres, so no way for me to stay with Tueter and train her all day and these incidents are spaced a few weeks apart. They even sleep with the goats in the barn all night with no problems and my chickens go out there amongst them without so much as a scratch.
    Sorry so long, but is this a puppy phase she will grow out of or is it best for me to find a new home for her now? I hate it because otherwise she is so perfect with the herd. :hair:
     
  2. jduwall

    jduwall New Member

    565
    Aug 7, 2009
    aw man that sucks...I have a doe that is rought too...I would keep her seperated especially if you have any does ready to deliver...is she is heat or preg...maybe hormones are the trouble...so sorry....let us know :sigh:
     

  3. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    With Puppies...even year olds ....can still be puppies or act like them...... they have to be watched at all times....if she plays rough ....you have to correct her...right away.... tell her ...that is not going to happen....even if ...the dog touches a goat tell her "no"....it is off limits.... Pups are a hand full and will take a long time to get the total play out of them....some aren't as bad about it...while others are a nightmare....it may take over a year or longer... before they reach that point... of OK.... no more play just guard mode.... but... if you have the patience and time...most will grow out of it...and there are those few.... that never will........ when you cannot supervise her.......I would pen her up... away from the goats ...until you can watch and correct her if needed.... otherwise.... her bad habits will get worse.....without correction.... :hug:
     
  4. jduwall

    jduwall New Member

    565
    Aug 7, 2009
    duhhh...sorry my bad...thought she was a goat...now just feeling stupid
     
  5. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Hey... don't worry about it...I have done the same in the past and I bet... I will again in the future.... we aren't all perfect.... just tired.... :wink:
     
  6. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    Thank you guys, I will keep her seperated from them. Her sister has been snarling at her all night through the fence, like correcting her. :laugh: DH was in a full sprint across the pasture and caught her in the ribs with a boot to knock her away from the doe, so I guess that was an immediate consequence. She seems to know she's in trouble, keeping her tail tucked and head low. I checked her over, no damage from the boot.
    All of my does are prego and about to deliver by March so that is a big concern of mine right now.
    And don't worry about thinking she was a goat, she looks like them and lives with them so she might as well be. :p
     
  7. JessaLynn

    JessaLynn New Member

    Aug 29, 2009
    NW Ohio
    Ours was the same way with our goats.Every time I seen her mouthing or just chasing the goats..I would yell "leave it" at her and she would stop.She doesn't do it anymore and I really think it's just the puppy phase.Have patience with her and only keep her in with the goats when you can supervise untill she grows out of it.Maybe keep her occupied with some toys and a hollow bone filled with peanut butter.They get bored and get into trouble sometimes.Good luck!
     
  8. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    my pyr did the same, she was constantly trying the play with the goats. a good slap corrected that and now shes very calm as a 5 yr old.
     
  9. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    your welcome....

    Whatever it takes.... to teach her.... that it is not cool ...to mess with the goats at all....a swift kick with the boot... :shocked: .glad.... she is OK though..... :wink:
     
  10. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    It's nice to hear that others have had the same issue and that the pyrs turned out good in the end. She really doesn't seem like she wants to hurt them, just playing and having fun, but needs corrected. This is the same dog that tries to "kill" the cars driving down the road near her goats.
    I'm going to give her a month or so in the buck pen, taking her out in the evenings and on weekends on a leash with the girls to work on some training. I was ready to pick up the phone and give her to a friend, so I do appreciate all of the help.
    She's the perfect sibling....nobody can hurt her goats but her! :laugh:
     
  11. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Yeah...some of us.... have been there...it is frustrating... :hair: :doh: :help: ...but... the outcome... is a great LGD in the end...we just have to get through the kid stage...well pup...stage.... :wink: :laugh:
     
  12. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    Yep, the lugheads are like human teens, with the right correction they DO grow up...I almost gave up on mine till he got out of the terrible twos or was it ones?
    Once she matures you wont regret keeping her. Believe me I had our first "pup" lacerate a doe's leg. I could have lacerated his head clean off.
     
  13. Sunny Daze

    Sunny Daze New Member

    307
    May 18, 2010
    Fairplay, MD
    OK, I swore I posted this long post yesterday but now don't see it! Anyway, our Anatolian chased chickens at about the same age yours is. The problem with swatting or hitting them is they are super smart and will know when you are there and when you are not. Also, they will misbehave then run off so they don't get the swat! We used a shock collar and it worked great! Only took a couple times and she was done with that. It is nice because they do not associate you with the punishment...Until she gets through it I definitely wouldn't leave her unattended with the goats...
     
  14. OhCee

    OhCee Yak Lady

    609
    Feb 26, 2010
    Western MT
    Dierks is a May 2010 pup. He is in a separate run from the goats. He loves them and likes to be with them when I'm out there to supervise, but he cannot be trusted yet. He doesn't tug legs, he likes to tug ears to try to get them to play back. He will be in a new pen when we get the yak next week.
     
  15. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA
    This is why the LGD pups need to be in a separate pen within the goat pen or on a trolley line where the goats can escape them for the first 2 years of life (NO EXCEPTIONS!!!)....only let out of the pen or off the lead when you are there to supervise. NO OTHER TIME! Your goats should not be a learning toy...there shouldn't be any time where the dog can grab legs and drag goats around without IMMEDIATE reaction from you. When my LGD pup tried that fun trick I laid into him like his life was about to end...he learned real fast. Definitely an unhealthy and unneccessary stress to your livestock and setting up your dogs to fail. Supervise and separate.... we've all been there, you just have to remember you are dealing with teenagers..... :)
     
  16. Suellen

    Suellen New Member

    467
    Mar 9, 2008
    Paragonah, Utah
    Sorry this post is so long. I have a 1 ½ year Great Pry/Anatolian LGD. I have some of the same problems.
    We got her as a pup. We would correct her when she tried to play with the goats.
    She acted like she was getting it. We were wrong she tried to play with them again biting the legs. We put her on a
    cable so she could be with the goats and the goats could get away from her if she tried to play. We have some stupid
    goats that didn’t understand they could get out of her reach. Duh. She has a large fenced kennel. We now supervise
    her with the goats. She has a shock collar so we can correct immediately even from the house. She understands the
    collars warning tone. I'm still not sure I can trust her. The only way to find out if she understands is to let her be with
    the goats, risking the goats getting injured. She also wants to roam when out. I understand your frustration. We tried to
    sell her but no one wants a dog that big. We are going to set up a wireless fence to deal with the roaming. We think that
    she is board and probably needs more exercise. I don't know if this helps but if helps me to know I am not the only one
    with this problem. Suellen
    :sigh: :hair: :? :scratch: :wallbang: :GAAH:
     
  17. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    My girls are approaching 18 months so I hope this is over soon. Her sister is much more serious and a much better guardian. Tut is just a dufus, running right up to people while Ber stays at a distance watching. I'm looking into a shock collar right now....great idea!
    I got Tut as an 11-month-old and she had been raised with Nubians (one of which we bought with her). She had never been aggressive with any of them and even did well through her first kidding with the babies. Interestingly, the nubian who was in her "original herd" is the one she's never tried to play with like that.
    I guess I'm lucky neither of them roam even though we just have electric braid fencing, but that's what they were raised with and they keep off the wire.
     
  18. Perfect7

    Perfect7 New Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    South Georgia
    Just wanted to update. I've taken some time off the last week due to a sick 2-legged kid and have gotten to spend time out with the pyrs and goats. I hate to say that it seems the swift kick solved the problem. :wink: That's not what I would advocate and not what I would have done if it would have been me versus dh who caught her in the act but....it worked. Both of our girls seem to have now "gotten it".
    Ber has reassigned Tut (the one with the issue) to perimeter duty on her own. Ber stays with the herd day and night, leaving only if Tut decideds there's something worth going after and then they both go on a rampage by day. At night, Ber stays with the herd lying in front of the barn door and barks only. If Tut wanders too close to the does, Ber instantly corrects her with a snarl. I guess it took DH to show Ber what she should have done. :p
    It's funny to watch them both try to kill any large birds that fly over the pasture, as if they also patrol the air space.
    Maybe one day Ber will let Tut share goat duty again, but for now she's border patrol. :laugh:
     
  19. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    If the swift kick worked.... that is good....what ever it takes sometimes....they can be stubborn and some things... just don't work while other things do... :wink:

    Sounds like things... are working out OK.... which is very good... great job.. :hi5: