Line Breeding? Or inbreeding?

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by Riot_My_Love, Dec 14, 2009.

  1. Riot_My_Love

    Riot_My_Love New Member

    Ah, I have a question - if you breed for 4-H, or market, is it OK to inbreed, or line breed. My big ol' goat breeding book is at a friend's (which I need back! :angry: ).

    As an example - Doe and buck have the same sire.

    I really want to know the effect of the kids. They would NOT (the kids) be breeders. If anything they would be pasture mates (probably not even that far).

    I just want to know if it's a 'good' idea. Because I really don't want to screw up any goats.

    Any advice is welcomed! And Thank you guys!!
     
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    you wont have deformed kids if thats what you are asking -- any particular conformation issues can be exaggerated by such a close breeding -- thats why it isnt recommended
     

  3. Riot_My_Love

    Riot_My_Love New Member

    All I'm looking to do is have some market kids around, and a replacment for one of our wethers who just died.
     
  4. ProctorHillFarm

    ProctorHillFarm New Member

    You should be just fine :wink:
     
  5. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    It's line breeding when it works, inbreeding when it doesn't.

    But you should be fine as long as you don't have any issues with some faults possibly being exaggerated.
     
  6. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Yep...totally agree with above post. If you're just looking at market goats then there is no harm done, but be aware characteristics will be exagerated in their kids. Lets say both goats toe out in the rear and have the same sire, the kids could end up toeing out even worse than the parents. But if you're not looking into showing or breeding then you're really not going to have an issue. There are also "hidden" traits that can pop up when breeding goats from the same lines. But like I said there's really nothing to worry about for market goats.
     
  7. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    Well some people would think I am totally crazy for the breeding I do. I have some brothers and sisters I bred together, some mothers to sons, I have a half sister bred to her half brother this year.

    I have had nothing but WONDERFUL results. I do not always do it by any means, but when they both have great conformation, and cashmere fiber, all I have gotten is even better.

    This years Grand Champion Doe at the Colorado State fair was a produce of inbreeding.

    The problem is for instance if they both have crocked legs, then legs more then likely be even worse.
     
  8. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA
  9. I have a doe who's grandfather is the same on both mom and dad, meaning half siblings, and she it one of the best looking goats I have ever seen.

    So at times it can be a good thing. I would not make it a habbit though, or over and over is what I mean. In this case it was a bobo, but worked out.
     
  10. crocee

    crocee New Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Northeast Arkansas
    OH BOY that color is hard to read. Can you please :pray: make it darker and not so bright :shades:
     
  11. smwon

    smwon Member

    168
    Aug 2, 2008
    Northern California
    I highlighted the fond so I could read it! lol

    This was a good thread to read, thank you...
     
  12. crocee

    crocee New Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Northeast Arkansas
    I did that also :greengrin: and it was a good question. I was just worried about newbies that may be asking the same thing and looking for answers.
     
  13. Riot_My_Love

    Riot_My_Love New Member

    Thanks everyone (sorry about the color) - I was just making sure I wasn't going to make a fatal mistake.
     
  14. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    I have a hard time agreeing with the whole theory of in breeding is when it doesnt work and line breeding is when it does. We bred a son to his mother several years ago, we got a doe kid who was awsome and one that had an extrea teat. It was the exact same breeding, yet one worked and one didnt.
    Line breeding is further apart, say a grandire to his grand daughter, in breeding is a lot closer. If you look on the ADGA genetic site you can look up line breeding and in breeding percentages. They actually come up with who is line bred and who is in bred. and with that being the case ADGA cant know which breeding worked and which didnt. (as far as dairy goats go)
    Now i know you are just looking for market kids. but breeding that closely what happens if you get does? are you going to breed them? or are you going to slaughter them. Obviously youre not going to get one hundred percent bucks. Just something to think about before you breed.
    beth
     
  15. ProctorHillFarm

    ProctorHillFarm New Member

    I fully agree here- there is definately a difference between inbreeding and linebreeding. Thanks for clearing that up :wink:
     
  16. BetterBuckskins

    BetterBuckskins New Member

    386
    Feb 1, 2009
    Taxachusetts
    Found an interesting article on the subject:

    Line breeding/inbreeding One breeding strategy is line breeding, which is different from inbreeding just in degree. Both of these strategies involve mating related animals. Inbreeding can be arbitrarily set as the mating of first-degree relatives (offspring and parents, or siblings),although this is only one possible definition among many. Line breeding can then be considered as the mating of related animals, but of close relationship less than first degree. Line breeding (or inbreeding) results in uniformity of offspring, especially if adopted as a longterm strategy with appropriate selection. Uniformity of appearance and performance of line-bred goats springs directly from the fact that line breeding increases genetic uniformity since parents are related. A very important historic note is that line breeding and inbreeding are the usual strategies for the establishment of breeds. Predictability is the major attribute of breeds that breeders find useful. The predictability and consistency of any breed is why most breeders choose it; they want a specific type of goat producing a specific product. Potential problems of line breeding (and these are more common with inbreeding) include loss of
    general vigor and especially loss of reproductive performance. Obviously, selection can help offset these. As a result, many line bred and inbred resources are indeed productive, vigorous, and reproductively sound.
    Line crossing
    Line crossing is the crossing of different lines within a breed, and while it has some of the same
    consequences as crossbreeding, it does contain this within a single breed. As a result, the variability is not as great as a cross between breeds, so that the boost from hybrid vigor is not as great. With line crossing the benefits of crossbreeding can be achieved, without loss of breed character and type. Consistency of production is still diminished though, and each
    individual situation will indicate whether this is a good tradeoff or not.
    The phenomena associated with crossbreeding and line breeding is going to have differing consequences for different breeders, largely due to differences in the breeders’ philosophies. That is, what do they want and how do they want to get there? These questions are essential for all goat breeders, but are frequently not asked. In the absence of a guiding philosophy and set goals, breeding programs fail to make the progress that is possible with such
    guidance. Line breeding takes time and commitment, while crossbreeding can be a quick fix and is a temptingstrategy for a variety of reasons. One outcome of crossbreeding is initial phenomenal results, especially if the parents that are recruited for the crossbreeding are intelligently selected.
    Crossbreeding Crossbreeding is a philosophic and biological opposite to line breeding and involves the mating of animals of two different breeds. Crossbreeding is a fascinating phenomenon, partly because different things happen depending on which stage of crossbreeding
    is considered.The first stage is the initial cross. A useful example comes from cattle. When Angus and Hereford cattle are crossed, the initial result is a very, uniform crop of black baldy calves, which have benefited from the specific combination of the genetic array
    of the parental breeds. Each calf gets half from each breed. Since each parental breed is uniform, and each calf gets half from each breed, every calf is pretty
    much like the next. This first calf crop is reaping the benefits of homogeneous parental breeds.
    If these calves are in turn used for reproduction, variability then increases since these calves are half one thing, half another. Using only color as the marker, these calves (when interbred) would produce black, black baldy, red, and Hereford pattern calves. The initial consistency is gone, and the resultis a variable group of calves. Variability is not all bad, and if combined with
    selection, the excellent goats can be skimmed off theherd and used to good advantage in show and other situations. They may indeed have excellent type and performance. What they lack, though, is the ability to consistently pass along this excellence to the next
    generation.Many of the advantages of crossbreeding, such as increased vigor and reproductive efficiency,are somewhat the disadvantages of line breeding. Conversely, the disadvantages of crossbreeding, such as lack of consistency and predictability, are the advantages of line breeding.
     
  17. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Thanks for posting that, Ashley's mom! Very informational.... I too was confused by the in/line breeding , I have a doe bred by her nephew so it's a close breeding sharing maternal lines, which are great BTW...Can't wait to see these kids :greengrin:
     
  18. smwon

    smwon Member

    168
    Aug 2, 2008
    Northern California
    Yes I believe I had read that (along with several others) when I was trying to decide if I would line/inbreed. I decided I am ok with it. I am keeping one more doe from my first two parents (unrelated), but will breed him to the does. However, I have chose to not go further than that and all the kids from that mating will be sold.
     
  19. nutmegfarm

    nutmegfarm New Member

    543
    Dec 22, 2009
    NE Ohio
    line breeding is great to improve specific traits, just remember you can do daughters to fathers, grandfathers, just not moms to sons {Most of the time}
     
  20. truegoats

    truegoats New Member

    2
    Jun 11, 2014
    So... can said goats be registered? For example... pygmy goats. Doe was bred by her sire... not optimal, and def not planned, but babies are healthy and aborable!! doe and sire are BOTH registered.