Linebreeding

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by OhCee, Mar 4, 2010.

  1. OhCee

    OhCee Yak Lady

    609
    Feb 26, 2010
    Western MT
    Do you do it? To what extent?

    I'm looking at a buckling I like, but his parents are half-siblings (Same mother). Is this normal? They say he is registrable in ADGA, AGS, and NDGA. Which is something I'd want for my herd in MT...

    Thanks!!
     
  2. farmergal

    farmergal New Member

    519
    Jun 19, 2009
    Northern California
    I am very curious about this as well... would love to hear what's considered linebreeding... and when it just becomes inbreeding...
     

  3. OhCee

    OhCee Yak Lady

    609
    Feb 26, 2010
    Western MT
    I'm only experienced in Canine breeding antics, and "Linebreeding" is just a nicer way of saying "Inbreeding on purpose because I like the repeated gene(s) in question."

    I'm trying to figure out what is acceptable in show circles, as well as ya know, morally in goat world.
     
  4. logansmommy7

    logansmommy7 New Member

    925
    Nov 11, 2009
    Shenandoah Valley, VA
    I have been interested in the same thing as I just purchased a buckling. He has some distant relatives to the does I have, but very distant, for instance gggrandparents and beyond. I think this is a thing that is somewhat normal, but I would think if his parents are half siblings, that might not be the best. I, too, am curious to see what others think about that.
     
  5. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I have a good article on this I can provide when I get on my computer at home. There is a true way to do linebreeding but siblings are not it. Some still do but you run a big risk
     
  6. OhCee

    OhCee Yak Lady

    609
    Feb 26, 2010
    Western MT
    Thanks! Yeah, I figured same grand dam on both sides is a no-no.

    I'd love to see that article whenever you have the time to dig it up :) Thanks!
     
  7. farmgirl42

    farmgirl42 New Member

    640
    Jan 2, 2010
    Eastern Ohio
    Oh, I would like that article, too. The whole linebreeding vs inbreeding thing is still a mystery to me. Right now, I can't tell the difference. :laugh:
     
  8. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    it isnt a huge no no

    I have seen it in some really nice pedigrees

    Kids Corral does a lot of in-breeding and the results are superb animals -- BUT I would only do this with really nice animals who have proven themselves and their parents have proven them selves etc.

    http://www.dairygoatjournal.com/issues/ ... _Hall.html

    in the above article she talks about inbreeding and line breeding -- their differences and how you can get good results with both.


    Because inbreeding has a bad name people will at times change it to line breeding when technically the results are just well put together inbreed animals ;)
     
  9. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA
  10. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA
    Hahaha... We posted at the same time Stacey.... :)
     
  11. OhCee

    OhCee Yak Lady

    609
    Feb 26, 2010
    Western MT
    Ooo thanks, guys!

    This is his parent info:
    Sire: IronwoodRanch SJ Snickerdoodle *S,*B
    (AR Esperanza MB Smarty Jones +*B, +S X DesertNanny HB Samoa 2*D, 2*B VVEV-89)

    Dam: IronwoodRanch SJ Pecan 2*D, 2*M VEEE-90
    (AR Esperanza MB Smarty Jones +*B, +S X Esperanza WS Warbonnet *D, 1*M)

    I'm honestly not sure what that means other than grand dam is the same on both sides.
     
  12. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    I can hardly wait to read it, thanks Stacey!
    A buck I used a couple yrs ago had lots of linebreeding.
    Same parents & grand parents on both sire & dam side. The breeders really knew what they were doing.
     
  13. Mouse

    Mouse New Member

    7
    Mar 3, 2010
    Texas
    Linebreeding is a kind of inbreeding that avoids close relations - half siblings would be considered linebreeding and is usually required to make a strain or line with the same traits. Linebreeding has a lower inbreeding coefficient, and is therefore less risky when it comes to harmful recessives. :)

    Most breeders I know linebreed fairly frequently, only outcrossing when necessary. Just my two cents :)
     
  14. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    Good info Mouse!
    This yr our Valentino was bred to his granddam & aunt. We'll see here in about 4 mos. I'll let you know the results.
     
  15. ProctorHillFarm

    ProctorHillFarm New Member

    I try to linebreed on proven animals wherever possible actually for HOPEFULLY more consistent results.
    There are lots of breeders who practice this too.
    Of course breeding in and of itself is a "crapshoot" wether you linebreed or not- but trying to focus on certain animals in a pedigree that were an asset to the breed and proven to produce nice progeny, and pull their strengths forward, is my theory.

    Not that it matters in this case a whole lot- but we are talking about the same grand-sire not grand-dam.
    In my opinion if that Smarty Jones (I dont think I know of him) was a nice buck that produced nice daughters and udder's I would go for it.
    In the case of the kids from him, they would have the same GREAT-grandsire- thats a pretty ways back now- especially if you are breeding him to does that are an outcross to Smarty Jones (that dont share those same particular lines), thats even LESS linebreeding in your resulting kids pedigree. Does that make sense?
     
  16. farmgirl42

    farmgirl42 New Member

    640
    Jan 2, 2010
    Eastern Ohio
    Thanks for posting the article. The "pictures" really helped!
     
  17. OhCee

    OhCee Yak Lady

    609
    Feb 26, 2010
    Western MT
    Yes!!! It's the GrandSIRE not dam! I feel like such a dope >.<

    Yeah, I'm thinking it actually makes sense. I need to come up with some dough, though! Lol. He's got amazing conformation.
    Baby pic:
    [​IMG]
    Here are some pics they sent me from today:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    An aside: The buckling's dam gave out 1334 lbs of milk in 2009. That sounds impressive... is it?
     
  18. ProctorHillFarm

    ProctorHillFarm New Member

    Yes! Thats very impressive! Thats nearly 4.5 lbs per day over a 305 day lactation. Thats very commendable!! I say go for it! :)
     
  19. OhCee

    OhCee Yak Lady

    609
    Feb 26, 2010
    Western MT
    I got Pistachio this evening! He took a tour of the house and is resting in an XXL dog crate until we can get him all accustomed to his new abode tomorrow :)

    He's super sweet and will totally just cuddle in your lap between running laps back and forth in the yard.