Little help please.

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by Crissa, Mar 31, 2009.

  1. Crissa

    Crissa New Member

    Oct 7, 2007
    Cashion, Oklahoma
    Okay the people that bought Heidi and Chase want to get Chase's papers and NOA Heidi so that their oldest daughter can show. Should I make them pay for Chase's papers? I sold him as without papers, but I think I may go ahead and help them get the papers on him. I will also be telling them that he's not the most show quality buck and show them a couple of good places to get some show quality animals. Does everyone think that it would be okay to NOA Heidi? I actually think she has some pretty decent conformation. :shrug: Any opinions are greatly appreciated!
     
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    she probably wants to do 4H or even if she wants to do ADGA starting with pets is never a problem - she can breed up.

    As to paying for Chase's papers - do you have his papers? what did you sell him for? remember his value goes up with the papers.
     

  3. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Yes... if they want registration papers.....make them pay the difference....if you sold her unregistered...then make them pay the balance left .....as if you were to sell her with papers... :wink:
     
  4. Thanatos

    Thanatos New Member

    937
    Mar 16, 2009
    Lake Ariel, Pa
    If you sold your buck as unpapered then they should have to pay the papered price or at least something extra for the papers at this point.

    As to the doe I dont know what NOA is
     
  5. rebelshope

    rebelshope New Member

    908
    Sep 20, 2008
    Wisconsin
    I have never understood selling registered animals without papers. To me it is like selling a buck and then castrated him before the sale. I say give them the papers, they belong with the goat and are worthless without the goat. Why deny him his heritage for a couple of bucks? Just my :2cents:
     
  6. Crissa

    Crissa New Member

    Oct 7, 2007
    Cashion, Oklahoma
    I gave them a huge deal. I had Chase for $150 with papers and $100 without, and Heidi was $150 non negotiable. I wound up selling them Chase for $50. So they paid $200 for both, plus a doe kid back. So what do you think would be fair? I'd like to help them get into showing them if that's what they want, but I still want to get my money's worth too. :shrug: And I can get Chase's papers, I just need to send them in, I wasn't going to until someone wanted to buy him with them because he didn't breed Lyrae. (it just wasn't worth it to me if he wasn't going to produce)
     
  7. Thanatos

    Thanatos New Member

    937
    Mar 16, 2009
    Lake Ariel, Pa
    I would say at least $50 for the papers. They cant complain they still got a deal.
    The lady I bought Luna from wethers ALL of her buckling that are sold paperless before they leave her ranch. When I asked her why she said that the owners didn't pay for the genes he has so she wasn't gonna give them away.
     
  8. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    We do it ....but they have the option on coming back ...if they want the registration..and pay registration price for an animal ...........we cannot give them a quality registered animal.... if they do not.. want to pay the price......the papers do not... belong to the animal....it's if the buyer wants to pay for them....at a higher price....the paperwork needs to be filled in.. by us the seller ...if we choose to do so...it does not make anything worthless...sorry..I don't feel that way about it...The animal still has heritage just not on paper..... :wink:
     
  9. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    FWIW I'm selling my little buck for $150, as a commercial buck, he's not outstanding and not show quality. Buuuuuut, he is eligible for registration aaaaand I dont see any cull faults in him - no leg, teat, colour or mouth problems. So I see no reason why he shouldnt be registered, even if he's not the most brilliant reg'd buck out there. So, I'm selling him at the commercial price $150, and I have the rego papers all filled out, so if the new owner wants to register him, she can do so at her own cost.
     
  10. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    if the buck is registered all his kids can be registered either as purebreds or even jsut NOA (native on appearance - does only) so for them to pay 50.00 for an unregistered animal is a fair pet price. But if they want to earn money off him and show etc then his value goes up. If she jsut gives the registration papers it is like giving away money.

    Example: Kids from Sweet Pea are registerable - cost: 300 for does. If they dotn go right away I plan to offer them as pet only, no papers, 175.00 (or something like that). If i just throw in the papers then they are getting a quality animal for extremely cheep - hey we all love cheep - but we have to keep the value of papered animals up or the market goes down.

    I never understood it till I got into registered and started to do the math and figuring and such. They are not paying for the registration but the value that the doe/buck has from that registration.

    I hope that explains it a bit better.
     
  11. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    I guess from my point of view, I honestly dont think my $150 buck is going to produce high quality doe kids worth $500 (thats what I pay for my real good boer does). I just dont think he's got it in him. But, he might produce reasonable registered does that they can sell for 150, 200. Its somewhere for these people to start.

    For me, rego papers dont automatically up the price of an animal. The quality of the animal should determine price.
     
  12. Thanatos

    Thanatos New Member

    937
    Mar 16, 2009
    Lake Ariel, Pa
    eh to each there own. I intend to sell Lunas kids for $300 papered does and bucklings and $50 for the wethers. If I have does I cant sell at the papered price then I guess I will sell them at $175 NP. And the does will go bred.
     
  13. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    of course. But my doe is bred to a quality buck and if I see that her kids are worth 300.00 then I will sell them as registered show quality for 300.00

    if i think they are more pet quality then I will state as such adn give papers. I am therefore telling them dont expect to breed this goat adn get much for her kids as she doesnt look quality to me (at that time, of course goats can change from kid to adult, in that case they would have gotten a deal)

    but if someone wants a pet goat just for the fun of it and all I have are the good quality goats I will sell with out papers for a cheeper amount. People lie to much for me to just give away a quality goat! I dont want ot see my quality goat in a show ring after they only paid a pet quality price! thats stealing from me. They can always come back and pay the remainder of the registered price and then they can have her papers to breed show etc.

    Just as I wouldnt sell an unregistered doe for 300 I wont sell a registered goat for less then 200.00 in my oppion that just degrades the market. Here the starting price for registered is 250.00 So you do what the market will bare.

    I am all for deals too - if someone buys two i will come down in price.
     
  14. Thanatos

    Thanatos New Member

    937
    Mar 16, 2009
    Lake Ariel, Pa
    sure, however I have at least a year before I will have any to sell. I have to get all my girls bred this year and buy 2-3 bred boer does(babies for meat). before i even start tryin to sell or price.( see at least I have posts ready to go for later this year :greengrin: )
     
  15. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    sorry Jason I was responding to Keren not you ;)
     
  16. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I agree with stacey.... :wink:

    with the boers... base registered price is $300 ...if I have them up for that price... I cannot budge ...on that price.....if they want a cheaper price ...then they do not get the papers....I stick to my guns on that ....I won't even sell them for $299 ...not a dollar less....I do not want to kill the market...I want to keep the prices on the goats where they should be and try to fight against this darn economy.......for basic registered prices....It may take a little longer to sell sometimes ...but eventually I do get it.....or sell the animal unregistered....

    What drives me crazy is that people are taking animals to auctions ...selling registered stock with the papers for $60 bucks and trying to kill the market.....then you get buyers that come to your place and say well your price is to high.... I bought a registered goat for $60 ......oh that just ticks me off...... :help:
     
  17. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I understand needing to sell off goats at a sale but giving papers on them for that cheep :shocked: thats just a shame. Tell them "good for you, you jsut got a steal"
    I am glad you are sticking to your guns Pam thats what I plan to do as well.....one reason why I only bred 3 does this year.

    What gets me is when people want a papered dog they will pay 2,000.00 and then have it AIR shipped to them for another 2-300.00! and not batt an eye because they liked the color or that specific breed! But a goat - oh I should get it for 50.oo :angry: Im sorry but I put money and time and energy and money did I already say that? into my goats. I paid 75.00 for each of my does to be bred! then the feed to keep them healthy during pregnancy and then the shots on top of that! gas cost to take them to the buck.....it all adds up and they want a 50.00 goat :hair:
     
  18. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    thanks Stacey......


    I know the feeling.....I just pray that the economy turns out for the better soon... I don't know just how much more ...we can take.... :pray:
     
  19. sparks879

    sparks879 New Member

    Personally i never sell a registered buck for less then one fifty. I did sell a buck kid for twenty five last year. They were bottle raising him and going to whether him and she was going to use him as her market project. However they never got around to banding eli, and he got too big. Then someone decided to use him as a buck, personally i dont think he is buck quality....his dam is nice but nothing special. Now the people want papers. Im kind of up in the air about it as i didnt intend to have my herd name on this buck kid as i wouldnt of used him in my own herd. But i said i would think about it, also told them i wouldnt register him unless i got another hundred bucks. I just couldnt justify selling a registered even decent quality buck kid for twenty five bucks, especially one that was originally intended for meat.
    I think in your case sinse youre getting a doe kid back i would ask for another twenty five to fifty dollars. Registering Heidi as NOA and Chase will benefit you as well. You are getting that doe kid back. Having her parents registered you can register the kid as experimental 50% nubian. So you would be benifitting from this too. And if you decide you want to show you can show her in the grade classes. In three generations you will have an american nubian.
    beth
     
  20. rebelshope

    rebelshope New Member

    908
    Sep 20, 2008
    Wisconsin
    I know that my thinking is in the minority. It is just my opinion. I guess I just feel this way because I once bought a horse that was registered, but I could never get the papers because the person I bought them from never got them.

    I meant that the papers are worthless, I mean if you don't have the goat that goes with the papers what can you do with them? you can't breed the papers.

    Wethering the kids that are sold without papers sounds like a good idea to me.

    I guess ,in this case, you should remind them that the the price of him with papers was $150 and you sold him for $50 and see what kind of an offer they give you.