Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant -- Sad news

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by tremayne, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. tremayne

    tremayne New Member

    217
    Feb 7, 2008
    My daughter goes to a high school with a working farm. She has a Boer X doe named Cosby, who had 2 beautiful doelings :girl: :girl: last Sunday. Yay! Mom and daughters are doing fine. I'll post pics soon.

    However, the kidding just before Cosby's was to a scruffy-looking Boer X doe whose owner was then unknown. Mama had one average sized buck, then a larger chunkier guy and then as a surprise to us all, a tiny footling breech buckling. Mama has a sad little udder, her first two sons are doing mostly okay, but the little guy, dubbed Oreo, has very little left to drink after his two stronger brothers are done with mom. When we checked on the goats Tuesday night, Oreo was dehydrated and couldn't even stand. We gave him some drench and tried to milk mom for a little nourishment. We got only a few drops. There was some milk replacer in an open bag that looked pretty disreputable, but it was all we could get at 7:30 in the evening. We took Oreo home and took care of him. the teachers my daughter called warned us that mom might not take him back, but we figured the alternative was that the kid would die without something in his belly. Not okay, we're all for doing what we can.

    The goat project students had a meeting today and discussed what was happening with the herd. The neglected mom's owner was there and is done with goats. She's selling them all and "doesn't have time" to care for them. When Oreo was brought up, her decision was to just put him down, or as the teacher suggested, put in in a closed plastic bag or drown him in a bucket. I am so sad to even type this. My daughter objected strongly. She and another student are going to try and nurse him back to health, then sell him, using the profit for his care and boarding at school. No "pet" goats or intact bucks are allowed to stay at school. Otherwise, he'd be there as a show wether. We have no land yet, so he can't come home with us. If we did, we'd keep him.

    As I type, Oreo is sleeping in our bed right next to my husband. He won't be there all night; he has a big plastic tub with soft bedding to sleep in. He'll go out to be with the farm goats tomorrow during school hours and come home with either us or the other student every night.

    Maybe I don't understand the realities of farming, but destroying an otherwise okay animal for convenience seems oh-so-wrong. I know Oreo has a long way to go. We're going to do what we can for him. What really angers me is that the young woman who owns Oreo's mom presents herself as a fine example of an ag student, yet her goat suffered from terrible neglect.

    Thanks for reading along this far. I just had to vent.
     
  2. babe817

    babe817 New Member

    108
    Apr 4, 2008
    Re: Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant

    sorry to hear...
    we have a little buckling we are bottle feeding at the moment.
    he was weak at first but seems to be doing fine.. you just need to give them the care they need. i hope he's going ok. glad your daughter spoke up.
     

  3. rgbdab

    rgbdab New Member

    252
    Nov 26, 2007
    TEXAS
    Re: Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant

    I had an equally hard time dealing with "AG Teachers" when my daughter was in high school. Neither my daughter or I had ever cared for a goat and thought she would be taught how to care for goats. HA The only thing the teacher had right was to be sure they always had water. Her other instructions included feeding them all the goat pellets they would eat, NO hay. My daughter did research herself and anytime she would ask the teacher something like "do the goats need minerals"? she would be made to feel stupid. All the goats at the Ag center were wethers, no breeding animals allowed, thank God because we would have been up to our knees in dead kids from the crappy care given to most, I'm sure. We would take hay to my daughters goat anyway and the teacher would tell my daughter he is going to get a hay belly.
    Now that I have my own goat herd, I realize the teachers attitude was that the wethers were going to market at the end of showing, so who cares if they are properly cared for.
    Not an opinion I hold myself. Every goat deserves to be cared for properly, regardless of their end.
    I have never met an AG teacher I respected as an advocate for the animals they are charged with teaching students to care for.
    Sorry to add my own rant, but you hit a sore spot with yours. Denise
     
  4. Cinder

    Cinder New Member

    736
    Mar 2, 2008
    Re: Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant

    I have no problem putting an animal down (humanely) if it's needed for the health/comfort of the animal. In other words, if an animal is really sick or seriously injured and their prognosis is poor to zero then I believe putting them down is the best option.

    However, that is not the case at all here and it is so hard to believe that people can be so callous toward a living being. As stated, just because it's inconvenient for these people and they don't want to be bothered with this baby they are willing to kill it.

    I'm so happy that you are there to take care of the little guy. I hope that by your actions others will rethink how they will value animals in the future.

    I hope things work out really well for you and the little guy.

    Best wishes.
     
  5. Shelly

    Shelly New Member

    386
    Oct 5, 2007
    California
    Re: Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant

    Good for you and your DD for doing the right thing. I do agree with cinder I can put down one that suffering and not going to get better, but this is not the case. It not unusually to have to bottle or supplement triplets. You may want to switch over to whole cow's milk if you do you need to mix it with the replacer for a gradually switch so his tummy doesn't get upset. My biggest problem with FFA is that one person is helping all the project. In 4-h you have a leader for each different animal project. My DD ag teacher is great she knows her weak spots(animal she doesn't know) and has gotten parents and breeder to help the kids. On the other hand I dealt with a little hilter ag teacher at fair a couple of years ago. He like to scream and throw thing at his students :veryangry:. Me and another parent caught him ready to throw a bottle at a student while scream very bad things. The other parent caught his arm to stop the throw and we both let him know if you saw or even hear about this happen again police and news would be called right then(student really didn't want this don't know why). We did turn him in to the school and head of the ag department. He lost his job and move out of town. Shelly
     
  6. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    Re: Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant

    Sometimes when you farm, you do need to elimiate an animal for economic reasons. But that doesn't mean letting them suffer or be abused. You can't be "through" with your animals until you have taken care of them. They are a committment. Period.
    It's a fact that market wethers are just that- raised to learn how to raise a healthy animal for meat. But again- most people in that girl's situation give the baby away as a free or very inexpensive bottle baby. Humanely putting them down does not mean putting them in a plastic bag or drowning him- sheeeesh for pete's sake.
    What is going to happen if the Mom doesn't take hime back? Her milk might increase with demand but it might not.
     
  7. Nupine

    Nupine New Member

    329
    Nov 13, 2007
    South Eastern Ohio
    Re: Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant

    That is completly terrible!! Why would they kill inhumanely a perfectly healthy little guy? Can you post pics? Why can't you keep pet goats there?
     
  8. tremayne

    tremayne New Member

    217
    Feb 7, 2008
    Re: Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant

    Thanks to you all for your support. Oreo is still hanging in there, unfortunately one of his brothers is a little shaky now. It's so frustrating. If mama had received better care, her chances of having healthy babies would have been better. Breeding her was a bad idea, especially since the owner has lost interest in her goats.

    Oh, well, all we can do now is our best for the kids and work for better herd management in the future. Not sure how much we, as parents, can really do to make things better, but we need to figure out something pretty darned fast.

    We're still so very new to goats that there are many things we haven't learned. So, I thank you all for being here to answer our questions. Here's a photo of Oreo soon after birth.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Re: Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant

    sounds like his bro needs to be pulled and bottle fed or supplemented while on mom. She just doesn't have enough milk for even two.

    it is a shame how people will treat animals but we just need to do our best with what we can do.
     
  10. Shelly

    Shelly New Member

    386
    Oct 5, 2007
    California
    Re: Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant

    If the owner wants to sell the does and kids do you know someone who would buy them or could you possible buy them? I would be actively looking for a buyer even thought they are not mine. Do you know how much the owner is asking? It shouldn't be to high with the healthy of the doe and kids. The kids and her will need a lot of extra attention, feed, and possible medical help it sounds like. I would also think the teacher should be push her to sell or be taking better care of the goats. The owner could be turned in to animal control for neglect. It's against the law to just let a animal stave to death and if mom doesn't have enough milk that whats happening. Shelly
     
  11. tremayne

    tremayne New Member

    217
    Feb 7, 2008
    Re: Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant

    Oreo was with another student for care this weekend. We get him back today. If his brother hasn't been pulled from mom, we'll get him some food, too. I have a fresh container of milk replacer, but we'll go slow switching formulas, since it's a different brand.

    Here's a question: Can we feed the kids pasteurized goat milk from the supermarket?

    My daughter was told the little guys can't have pasteurized milk until they're older, but the formula is heat treated. I bought some goat milk, but the ag teacher told us not to use it. She said the kids can't have it because it's pasteurized. I don't know what to believe. I've read here that some people pasteurize milk for their kids.

    I trust you folks and know there's much experience and wisdom represented in this group. I just don't want to make things worse for the kids.
     
  12. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Re: Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant

    there maybe a little truth in what is being said because raw goats milk is best but really replacers are cows milk that has been pasterized then dried - it isn't raw.

    So if that is cheeper then you can try that, but don't keep switching him back and forth between types of milk that will cause you problems more then likely.
     
  13. Shelly

    Shelly New Member

    386
    Oct 5, 2007
    California
    Re: Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant

    I thought CL prevention was being raised on pasteurize milk? I don't do dairy so I could have misunderstood. Shelly
     
  14. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Re: Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant

    CAE prevention is heat treating the milk, not sure if that goes all the way to pasturization or not - probably.
     
  15. Shelly

    Shelly New Member

    386
    Oct 5, 2007
    California
    Re: Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant

    Thanks Stacey can never remember which C disease it is. This is form Fias Co Farms.

    I don't know if anyone recommend this site to you tremayne it has a ton of great information.
    http://fiascofarm.com/
    Shelly
     
  16. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Re: Little Orphan Oreo--A Long-ish Rant

    thanks Shelly now i know :D I am always confused about the CAE prevention stuff so I never get it right.
     
  17. tremayne

    tremayne New Member

    217
    Feb 7, 2008
    Well, baby Oreo didn't make it. He had too many things against him. He died last night, not under my daughter's care, but with the other student who was looking after him.

    His remaining brothers looked better today. They were up and running around, nursing from mom. Her udder looked fuller and even though all is not perfect, things look a lot brighter for mom and her 2 boys. She is a very patient doe and lets them nurse frequently.

    This whole experience was frustrating and sad. I thank all of you for your help and support. You're good people.
     
  18. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    I'm sorry that you had to go through this- his owner could and should have taken care of him. Even with lots of experience, goats can be hard as so much can go wrong especially with newies. At least kind people tried to help him and I'm sure he was comforted by this care.
     
  19. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    oh that is so sad!! :tears: I am sorry you lost him

    You gave him a good life while he was hear and you, your daugher, husband and the other student are to be commended for your efforts.
     
  20. Shelly

    Shelly New Member

    386
    Oct 5, 2007
    California
    I'm so sorry. Shelly