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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Have gotten a few questions as to the levels of our mineral mix and what an all stock or dairy ration grain is. So took a couple of pic of the labels and though to just post em. So here is first the grain we feed and then second the loose mineral we give free choice.
 

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What brand is the mineral? I haven't been able to find any mineral higher than 1,100ppm of copper for years (and that's a cattle mineral), but I can have stuff shipped in. Everything is getting so hard to find these days.

I ran out of grain the other day, and the feed store I normally go to was closed, so I went to the other one that charges double, just to get grain, nothing else.
I asked for a dairy lactaion grain and I got "....uhhh, I dont think we have that.." then I asked if they had a sweet 100 goat chow and I got the same answer, then I asked if they carry any high protein grain for goats, or a calf starter without urea and I got a blank stare followed by a bunch of "uh's..." and "I dont think's.."
So I asked "Well what the the hell do you have!? Do you have any sweet cob or dry cob?!" FINALLY! She perked up and said "Yeah I think we have that!" goodness gracious, I swear I have never had such an issue just trying to buy grain!
 

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I have no expertise in animal nutrition, but I would be somewhat concerned about the calcium to phosphorus ratio of your ration. The mineral has more phosphorus than calcium. The feed is closer to the 2:1 ratio, but the numbers are not exact. I'm not sure if the mineral would cause an imbalance or not. Do you feed any alfalfa? That is a good amount of copper in the mineral. Do they eat it well?
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
LOL I soooo hear you Lacie. And you cant call these places and expect to get someone on the phone who knows anything other then the front of the animal is where the food goes in and the back of the animal is where the food comes out. I actually drove to all 8 feed stores looking for ammonium chloride and not one person (bosses and owners included) knew what the heck it was or what it was used for. So I ended up buying it on line of course. I didnt like paying 13 bucks for a 2 lb bag (shipping added) but the only other thing I found was a 50 lbs bag for 46 bucks and 43 dollars shipping. Great price to be sure but for one goat? Na I dont wanna have to worry about storing it for the rest of his life :)

The mineral mix comes from a feed store in Milton Freewater in Oregon called Bordertown feed and supply. 541-938-5403. Its a 150 mile round trip for us and each bag costs about $30 bucks but its well worth it. I ususally get some smokes (half as much vs washington state) and do some trout fishing while Im there.

Before this find, we used to have a vet prescribed mineral mix that we would have filled by a locale mill. That was the greatest stuff ever and was designed strickly for goats. But this stuff we get now, as you can see is pretty darn good. The copper as you pointed out is high enough that we dont have to worry about bolus's. Selenium is high enough we dont have to worry about bo se boosters (just give em to kids at birth). and it gives a good balance of calcium and phosphorus. Which I think really allows us to feed alfalfa with much less worry of UC. But as mentioned I ordered the ammonium chloride which Ill add to Legions own personal 50 lbs bag of the mineral mix just to be on the safe side.
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Yes Tenacross we feed dairy quality alfalfa year round. We dont have water rights so pretty much our 5 acres is a dry lot. And I know about the 2:1 but have never been a fan of it in regards to preventing UC. I have read studies that blame calcium and others that blame phosphorus levels for UC. Which it totally typical of goat health issues in general. I do know that the 2:1 ratio is pretty much a standard for not just goats but for horses as well but thats more for a balanced diet and not for UC prevention. So my approach is to give the best quality feed possible (alfalfa), followed by the best mineral mix possible (at least for my area) and then supplement with what I need to balance it out. With intact bucks and dairy does, I dont worry about UC ever. But am still pretty new to pack goat wether management. Have already taken pre steps to help prevent UC by castration at 5 months of age and being tough by my vet on how to do exams on Legions... area :)

ALSO, we have our water tested once a year (new house on a new piece of land) just to make sure that it stays level. We are down deeper then most of those around us and our water is filtered through 135 feet of sand. So our hard water level is less then half of anyone in our area at 14-17 grains.

So the end result for Legions intake would looks something like this:

Grain (which he only gets maybe 1-2 lbs a week) 1:1
Mineral mix (free choice) 1:1
Alfalfa (switching to a alfalfa mix when able to find a good grower) 6:1 (3:1 from a mix)
Ammonium Chloride to balance out the alfalfa (mixed in the mineral mix, free choice).
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yep you are correct. Thus the many times I have called it a premix on other posts. Its actually suppose to be mixed with 1 to 3 or 4 ratio. But what most people done know is that goats require a higher level of minerals then most other animals, even cattle. Thats why people are often times doing further supplements with bolus's of copper and booster shots of things like selenium. With this mix, we never find the need to do that as its already in the mineral mix. But its the high selenium in this mix that requires it to be called a premix. When we first found our new vet a couple of years ago and went over our herd management practices, he confirmed the mix was ok to feed straight. The process in which they use to extract selenium for nearly all mineral mixes, isnt the organic method (which allows for a much easier absorption of it into the body) so the chance of any of the goats getting a toxic level was virtually impossible without them standing over the mineral mix every day all day. But by feeding it free choice, pretty much once or twice a week they will visit the source and after 5 minutes or so, move on and are good for days.
 

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The Se is what I was thinking was very high. We feed loose minerals designed for meat goats with high Cu, Se, a lot of other traces and balanced C/P. We still end up supplementing with BoSe, high level B complex and Cu bolus.

btw that's a lot of salt. That likely should limit their intake of too much of the minerals.
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It does seem like a lot but I have tasted this many times. Each time I think it cant taste as bad as it did last time... the goats love it! Growing up in Montana I used to love to break off piece from the salt blocks that were out for the horses and eat em. So the first time I tasted this mix I was thinking back to that salt block and... OMG this stuff is nasty and doesnt tastes anything like it lol! The salt level doesnt taste high either. But when we had the chat with the vet we covered that as well. They just dont eat it often enough to worry about it. Though someone putting their animals on it for the first time might give em the shakes :)
 

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Growing up in Montana I used to love to break off piece from the salt blocks that were out for the horses and eat em.
Glad to know I'm not the only one who has done this. I used to do it all the time.
 
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