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Discussion in 'Fuzzy Fibers' started by kannm, Mar 23, 2009.
Which would be better if I wanted to make yarn and knit?
Well, are you talking about spinning it yourself? Are you a spinner already?
Cashmere is more for the experienced spinners, it is a shorter staple then mohair and it is a lot more expensive to try to learn on.
Does that Help?
Yes, thank you. I am not a spinner now, but hope to learn. I am a little worried about mohair because wool gives my skin trouble, cashmire and mohair might too. I knit and thought it would be really cool to be able to make something from fiber from my goats.
I have heard of a lot of people that really have a hard time with wool but do fine with Mohair. It really is totally different, and Cashmere, I have not heard of anyone that it bothers, now that is not saying there is not anyone out there.
Do you have cashmere of Angora goats?
I am learning to spin (If I could get more time to practice), I do have Marino wool to practice with because that is the cheapest out there.
I don't have fiber goats right now. I will want some soon, though. If mohair would not bother me, it would probably be the best choice as it seems like it is easier to handle, can clean it yourself, and less precious to learn on. Also, I would like to get enough in a year to make something.
If you can, buy a small amount of fiber, do you know anyone close by? If not, I could send you a little cashmere, maybe someone else can send the mohair. Put it somewhere close to your skin (I did this, put it in my bra), and wear it during your regular day. That will tell you if you can wear a particular fiber. I can wear cashmere, but not wool, and mohair is iffy, if it's fine I can, if it's not I can't. I think, commercially, most mohair is used in garments that are not worn near bare skin...ie coats, sweaters (cardigan style), etc.
I could probably visit a dept. store and try on a cashmire sweater to see if it bugs me. I think I would like the cashmire goat better because I really like the idea of combing out the fiber. I don't like that I would have to send it out, though. The mohair sounds cool because there would be a lot more of it.
I see your point. They are both great. The reason I chose the Cashmere over Angora.
1. I was told they are better tempered.
2. Eat more noxious weed then any other goat. They will eat all the Thistle. (It is proven they will eat more then any other goat).
3. I did not like the idea of Shearing (I am to lazy to do that)
4. They are typically better mom's
5. Cashmere is worth more then Mohair
Now please, these were the things I was told when I was looking into what goats to get.
Many years ago, LOL, my first goat was an Angora goat. I got her and her daughter, right off the reservation, in New Mexico. You would have thought she'd be wild and difficult, but she was the sweetest girl. Baby did everything Mom did so, she was kind of undistinguished, but sweet. I sheared her twice/year. And she loved my horse! But, I had to feed her alfalfa hay to keep any weight on her (she got wormed with the horses...I was uneducated on goat keeping back then). So, sweet goats, higher upkeep then my Cashmeres, shear vs comb, great weeders, yep Lori, I'd say you got it right! :thumbup: imho
Ok, you all make excellent points. I will need to buy a few of angora and cashmire goats! So, I am going to need a large farm.
Then you get a buck and breed the Angora to the Cashmere and you get Cashgora. It is beautiful LONG fiber. It is the length of the angora and looks a lot like Cashmere. I have one and I use her fiber for felting only because it is not cashmere and I do not want to sell it as Cashmere either. When I get a LOT better at spinning I might start spinning that.
Not trying to pick a fight here, you know I love you, but you also know I just couldnt pass that up.
Reasons I picked Angora goats over Cashmere goats (bear in mind this is true for Australian cashmere vs angora, not necessarily in the states):
1. Angoras are bigger goats - stronger, tougher, hardier, more likely to produce multiple births, bigger carcasses
2. Similarly, cut heavier fleeces. Yes I acknowledge that cashmere you get more money per kilogram but mohair you get more kilograms per goat per year. I weighed up whether I would like to have goats that cut 1kg of fibre each year at $70/kg, or goats that cut 8 kg of fibre per year at $25/kg. So angoras were the way to go.
3. More established markets for mohair than cashmere
4. Angoras have much much better temperament, and better on fences, than cashmere.
5. Angoras more realistically priced for breeding stock than cashmere.
6. Also there is just better quality goats in the Angora vs cashmere population - in terms of structural soundness mainly.
I'd be interested in seeing the research that indicates cashmere eat more weeds than other breeds - because in my experience my angoras will eat weeds that my other breeds dont (including just about every noxious weed known to man lol).
Di - the reason your angora seemed to be a 'hard doer' = she was a high quality goat that put all her nutrition into her fleece. A well bred angora goat will tend not to be fleshy, and always a little on the skinny side.
Thanks Keren, I knew you'd find this discussion sooner or later! You are certainly right about the temperment. My Cashmeres are finally becoming less freaky, after 3 years! I still can't "catch" Jada by myself. Although, she wanted me there when she kidded. My buck was bottlefed (by me) so he's a big sweetie. They are definately less domesticated. But, they eat wild azealia(sp) and thistle, etc. So, they are working members of the family. I was interested to see what kind of udders they would have...I've heard boer folks talk about the poor udders in that breed...but my girls have nice udders. Good attachments, nice shape, teats in a good position. Not as much capacity as a dairy goat, but they are all feeding twins (well one has a single, the twin was doa), and doing well in that department.
I have been told Angoras (here anyway) are not as hardy and they don't twin as often. But, my girl was good (but like I said she was literally purchased off the Navajo reservation, out there if they aren't hardy, they die).
It would be nice if we had an easier way to market our fiber, but, we are limited on that. There are a few "mini mills" that can process fiber and then we have the spinners market which isn't really a market. I think if I tried I'd find some Amish folks that would probably buy it, but, they'd probably want to trade, which might actually be a good idea. But then I just have a few goats, too. I have 4 adult does, the 4 "teenagers", and now 3 doelings, so that's my limit right now. :thumbup:
Gotta put my 2 cents worh in here folks....... I chose the Pygora goat and have never regretted it for a moment in 4 years. I chose that breed because:
1. Depending on the type, A & B, which is the mohair, and C, which is the Casmere, the fleece on a Pygora goat does not degrade as the animal ages. I have researched (and been told) that the fiber on an Angora looses it's quality after the animal reaches 5+ years of age. The Pygora is good throughout it's lifetime. Not sure if this is the case for cashmere too.
2. The Pygora is a smaller, very hardy breed. I'm knocking on wood fiercely here, but I have not had a severe health issue with my goats in 3+ years. Other than eating the inside of their barn (the wall board and insulation), they do not challenge the fencing. Multiples at birth are the norm, with difficult birthings not very common (of course, most of that is dependent on proper husbandry).
3. Temperment: with the exception of the new ones I got last fall & didn't spend the time I needed to with them right away, these creatures are so tame and the sweetest critters I have ever owned.
This is the first spring that I have babies on the way. I waited so long to make sure I was caring for them properly (think I am - they're all healthy and spoiled rotten) before I tried the baby thing.
As for spinning.... I'm still trying to get the hang of that. I do not recommend trying the exotic fibers until you have spinning down to a science. It's much harder to learn tension & drafting using a fine fiber and once I switched to a cheap merino roving, I've been doing much better. I recommend the following site for tips & tricks:
Keren, We all chose the goats for us for our own reasons. That is why I said (THE REASON I CHOSE CASHMERE OVER ANGORA), Not anyone else reason.
Here in the stares the Angora goats are known to be a lot more frail, have more medical problems more problems kidding and reject the babies more. Here in Colorado they are not at all tame, at the only show they are aloud at they have to be drug in the ring because they will not walk for anything, where all the cashmere are so sweet and friendly. Now i really do believe that has a LOT t do with how much people have contact with the.
3. More established markets for mohair than cashmere. Totally different here. When I take my cashmere to show to sell, I sell out long before anyone can even start to sell their mohair
4. Angoras have much much better temperament, and better on fences, than cashmere May be better on the fence. The only time mine rub on the fence is when they need to be brushed out.
Angoras more realistically priced for breeding stock than cashmere Cashmere are more expensive only because they are in a higher demand because of the fiber. I have a friend that is getting out of goats. She sold her cashmere but can not get anyone to even consider her Angora's. She is looking at giving them away, and they are registered.
6. Also there is just better quality goats in the Angora vs cashmere population - in terms of structural soundness mainly. WOW not at all here. The Angora's are not near as sound. Matter of fact at Estes Park Wool Market, the Angora breeders are always asking how the cashmere are so much better sound and what do we do to help that? How do we keep them around for so long.
I would love to see your goats in person that would be great, but beings I can not, then it sounds like I am really missing out on some very nice Angora goats.
Here is a link to just one of the many stories about Cashmere goats eating more weed.
I hope it works,
Di, I've found better udders on the Angoras vs boers. Also found good udders on the cashmeres.
Lori - the way you describe the angora in US is really quite depressing. because we owe alot of our breeding success to the imports from Texas way way back. But from what I understand the US industry has really gone backwards since then.
I have a lot of people say to me that Angoras are less hardy than other goat breeds, and I honestly dont know where that comes from. I think maybe because they can be sensitive to rain and cold directly after shearing, that maybe it developed from that. But in all honesty, I probably have less sickness in my angoras than my boers. Similarly at kidding time, I have more problems with the boers because they get carried away with trips and quads, than the angoras that like to stick to twins or singles. The angoras seem to be better pushers than the boers, they just quietly get on with it and get the job done, while the boers seem to carry on and scream instead of pushing, and they give up quicker too. Lot of the time I dont know when my angoras are kidding, but I sure as hell know when the boers are kidding, they scream so much lol Considering the cashmere, I guess you cant say the cashmere are any worse or better than the angoras, they kid down just as well, their kids are a little smaller but also more lively at birth than the angoras, they get that from their feral roots.
By temperament, I mean that the angora tends to be a little more laid back and grounded, whereby a cashmere will spook a little more easily. Again, goes back to their feral background. And the fences - very few of my angoras will wriggle under a fence, jump over, go through a hole or damage the fence by horns or butting. Cashmeres I've experienced will do these, not as bad as boer goats or dairy goats, though, thank goodness.
Cashmere is very much a cottage industry here, and its a bit of an old boys club, hence the unrealistic prices faced by someone wanting to start off. I think the last time I saw an ad for adult cashmere does they were starting at $600 per doe, not even a show winner just a registered flock doe. Compared with an angora, similar quality (reg flock standard, but not show winner) for $100 - $150. Whenever I make a purchase I expect the animal to pay itself off within two years. Is the $600 cashmere really going to do that?
As far as the walking thing, if you put some time into the angora and break it in to walk, it will walk, but if you just grab it they wont walk for anything lol they are stubborn little critters
You've seen this doe before, but she embodies almost every thing I am looking for in a fibre goat.
She is large framed and cuts at least 8kg a year because of that big frame, she will also produce more multiples because of that frame as well as joining earlier (I join at 30kg, she gets there at a younger age than smaller framed animals). She has great coverage and density, both of which equal more fleece. She could be less muffled in the face, although I dont mind a muffled face, as I have seen that it correlates to better quality overall, I dont mind having to wig and crutch. She is long and deep bodied, that gives more fleece, more room for her organs to function thus she will be an easier keeper, it also means she would have more carcase when culled. Structurally speaking she has a good strong back, well laid in shoulders, and correct angulation through the legs, this soundness indicates longevity. When assessing the fleece, she is dense, long, and very even - no broadening off in the neck or breech - which means at shearing I dont have to separate bits off, the whole fleece goes into the same bale. She has a brilliant belly which is uniform with the rest of the fleece - a difficult thing to achieve. And the best bit is she is shearing kid quality fibre on her sixth shearing. She's also got a tidy horn set, a broad muzzle, very soft hair on the muzzle and ears, and good feet that hardly require trimming.
Unfortunately, I cannot get this level of quality in a cashmere goat - if I look at that goat in your signature, she is like a completely different breed compared with our cashmere goats.
I'll stop my rambling now lol
For the record that doe is 50% Texan, 50% Sth African with a tiny tiny bit of Australian.