Moonspot Genetics

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by Epona142, Nov 10, 2010.

  1. Epona142

    Epona142 The farm that Hope began

    May 25, 2008
    Madisonville, TX
    Does anyone know how the Moonspots genetics work? I am familiar with co-dominant traits (polled/blue eyes) but not sure where Moonspots fit in. Obviously only one parent needs to exhibit moonspots for them to be passed on, BUT are they also a recessive feature?

    If a goat has a sire/dam with moonspots, but does not appear to exhibit the trait, can they still produce kids with them?

    Just trying to puzzle it out. Ball python genetics are so much more simpler LOL
     
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I believe MS need to be expressed to be passed on. BUT some MS are nearly impossible to locate because they are just one hair or are so faint to be visible.
     

  3. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    From what research i've done...multiple sources have said that moon spots can only be passed if one or both parents has them, so it wouldn't be recessive. A moon spot can be as little as just a few hairs...so even if you don't think your goat has them, a tiny spot hidden somewhere on the goat could cause moon spots on their kids.

    I have a buck with a pretty decent amount of moon spots, but he hasn't thrown them that much on his kids. I also have a doe who surprised me this year with a buckling with about 10 moon spots scattered on him...since the buck she was bred to has no moon spots or no moon spotting in his pedigree, I looked on the doe and I finally found a small creme moon spot on her hind leg. So sometimes when you don't think they are there...they're really just hidden or hard to see.

    I had a buck that passed away this year, but he had one tiny little creme dot on his shoulder and he has thrown more moon spots on kids this year than my buck with a bunch of big moon spots. They are a very interesting thing to read up on, but not a lot of research has been done.

    So anyway, back to my answer. One parent must have them in order to throw them. Some disagree with this statement though.
     
  4. Epona142

    Epona142 The farm that Hope began

    May 25, 2008
    Madisonville, TX
    Then it would be co-dominant I'm thinking. Since both parents don't have to have moonspots for it to be passed on, in my (and others) experience. Like Blizzard, his dam had moonspots but his sire does not. He exhibits moonspots.

    Interesting, thanks!
     
  5. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA
    LOVE,LOVE,LOVE this topic 2nd only to the the "polled" topic in my mind! LOL

    OK, so as far as I've researched I've come up with this:

    Yes, it is correct that either the sire or dam need to be a "genetically" moonspotted goat. Now for the fun part; :laugh: Moonspots are easily hidden by white...as you can not tell a color pattern on a white goat and/or on a white belted, white spotted and so on goat. Also, roaning is a dominant pattern which will "hide" moonspots. So if you have a goat that doesn't "exhibit" moonspots but is producing them....they are genetically moonspotted. Hope this helps. :p
     
  6. firelight27

    firelight27 Hopelessly Addicted

    Apr 24, 2009
    Southern Oregon
    This is fantastically interesting. I have done a ton of genetic color research with horses, but have found it hard to study in goats simply due to a lesser amount of material. I just got a doe in mid-October who is covered in giant moon spots. Her dam has a lot, and her doeling kid last year had them. I have always been under the impression that loudly marked animals won't tend to pass on the trait, while minimally marked animals are more apt to pass it loudly in their offspring.

    That is at least how it tends to work in horses (from my experience.) Your loud overo won't give you foals with any more that a tiny dot of white, but your mare with only a quarter sized belly spot will give you tons of splash.

    I love how belly bands are dominant. My first buck threw them on every single one of his kids to some extent.
     
  7. Epona142

    Epona142 The farm that Hope began

    May 25, 2008
    Madisonville, TX
    Oh yes. My roan nubian doe has moonspots, but they are quite faint.

    See if you can spot them!

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

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    And for reference, a picture of her when she was younger. You can REALLY see them here.

    [​IMG]

    I really look forward to seeing what she produces crossed with Popeye, my friend's buck.

    [​IMG]


    I am absolutely fascinated with genetics. Ball pythons were my first big love and the genetics in them are AMAZING. It's so complicated and there's always something new and something gorgeous.

    It's so true on the belly bands too. The four kids Hope has had have had belly bands. She's only produced ONE kid without one, and it was a stillborn :(

    I am EAGERLY awaiting her kids. Less than a month now! The sire of Hope, Pepper, and Indy's kids is moonspotted. They're all due next month.

    [​IMG]

    And of course most of my juniors are bred to Blizzard, who has a tiny moonspot under his eye, a few hairs on his rump, and a rather impressive spot on..his testicles. Lol.
     
  8. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    kristina are those spots white? if so then they arent moonspots. Moon spots are somewhat round spots of color varying from a light cream to a dark brown, but never white or true black. They may be superimposed over any other color or pattern (except white). The extent of the moon spotting and the final color of the spots is variable.
     
  9. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Stacey is right, moon spots cannot be a true black or white. Since the white is an absense of color and a moon spot is not, a white marking will cover right over any moon spots that "get in the way of the white markings".

    You can check if they are moon spots by seperating the hair and looking at the skin color...if it's pink, it's just a white spot...not a true moon spot.

    However, was that buck shaved at some point? I have a black buck with orange/tan moon spots, when I shaved him this summer his coat grew back in and his moon spots now look white, as his coat grows in and next year when he sheds, they are going to look tan again

    Does the buck have a pedigree?
     
  10. Epona142

    Epona142 The farm that Hope began

    May 25, 2008
    Madisonville, TX
    Yes he was shaved, no they are not white. They were a creamy orange color before being shaved. I remember posting a picture of him somewhere before on here, before he was shaved, and asking about it. The skin underneath was not a different color.

    Name: Pace County Roadhouse Blue
    Sire: Creek Road Gorilla
    Sire's Sire: MCH Creek Road Mr. Bill H.
    Sire's Dam: Creek Road Sugar Cookie
    Dam: Creek Road Rosmond
    Dam's Sire: MCH Willow Creek Instant Replay +S
    Dam's Dam: Flat Rocks Consuela *D
     
  11. Bebop

    Bebop New Member

    221
    Feb 26, 2010
    Baumholder, Germany
    [​IMG]

    My doe is polled and moonspotted :p
    She has moonspots everywhere! Even one big one on her udder! So cute!
     
  12. Epona142

    Epona142 The farm that Hope began

    May 25, 2008
    Madisonville, TX
    Beautiful! What a pretty girl