The Goat Spot Forum banner
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Kinder Goat Breeder
Joined
·
4,302 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well we appear to be dealing with a worm bloom right now. We've had sudden warm temps in the 60s (sorry all you people dealing with artic weather) and it seem like this has caused a sudden spike in parasites for me. To be honest I haven't checked their FAMACHAs in a little while because they get freaked out when I mess with them. It was probably the beginning of January since I checked. Well they are bad, like a four. The worst I've seen. I gave them ivermectin orally and each a dose of red cell. I didn't even do a fecal because of how bad it is. I think I'll try to do one tomorrow. Is there anything else I should do for them? They are acting 100% normal, eating great, being rambunctious boys, poop looks normal.
 

·
Registered
Kinder Goat Breeder
Joined
·
4,302 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I normally would dose Ivermectin (1mL per 40 orally, or if you've used it in your herd a lot 1mL per 30lbs orally) with a second dewormer at the same, Safeguard or Valbazen at 1mL per 10lbs. Repeat both in 10-14 days
My vet said that ivermectin is still working in my area, I did 1cc per 34lbs. I've never used ivermectin before. Could I do a fecal in ten days and see how it is and then make a judgement on dosing again? Or are you recommending this even if the fecals look good?
 

·
Registered
Kinder Goat Breeder
Joined
·
4,302 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Okay, so I need some hep understanding why it is that it is recommended to redose in 10-14 days. I just did a fecal and Phantom had an EPG of 450 and Cullen had an EPG of 350. Now I never did a fecal when I dosed them the first time, so I have no idea what kind of a reduction this is, but their FAMACHAs are looking a lot better. Should I still redose with the EPGs they got?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,230 Posts
Hopefully I get the science of this correct, here goes.

When you dosed the first time you killed the adult, egg laying worms inside the goats. However, there were still eggs from those worms all over the environment and inside your goats. So now, 3 weeks later, those eggs that have survived and are in your goats have hatched and grown and are just becoming egg laying adults. So the second dose kills that next generation before you see another spike in egg counts.

I understand your hesitancy to pump more poisons into your animals. And it is totally feasible that your goats immune systems can now manage better since you've got the load down. They are your goats and you can choose the best course of action!
 

·
Registered
Kinder Goat Breeder
Joined
·
4,302 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hopefully I get the science of this correct, here goes.

When you dosed the first time you killed the adult, egg laying worms inside the goats. However, there were still eggs from those worms all over the environment and inside your goats. So now, 3 weeks later, those eggs that have survived and are in your goats have hatched and grown and are just becoming egg laying adults. So the second dose kills that next generation before you see another spike in egg counts.

I understand your hesitancy to pump more poisons into your animals. And it is totally feasible that your goats immune systems can now manage better since you've got the load down. They are your goats and you can choose the best course of action!
That makes really good sense @SalteyLove. Thanks for the explanation :). I always feel like I should know why I'm doing something.

I'm just recently learning how to handle chemical wormers and I want to be very cautious with how I deal them because I do not want to create resistance.
 

·
Registered
Goat Mentor
Joined
·
7,506 Posts
Thrifty Homesteader:

“Common Practice #3: Deworm your goats ten days after the initial deworming to kill parasites that have just hatched because the first deworming will not have killed the eggs. Of course, when you do that, you do kill some worms that have hatched, but you also wind up with more resistant parasites that survived the second deworming, increasing the number of resistant parasites on your pasture. The more often you use a dewormer, the faster you are breeding the parasites to be resistant to the dewormer you are using. This advice for a follow-up deworming was originally given for fenbendazole, which had poor efficacy against arrested worms, which would then be killed by the second dose a couple weeks later. Unfortunately, a lot of people concluded it would be a good idea with all dewormers, regardless of whether it was necessary. After using any dewormer, you should continue to monitor the body condition and anemia status of the goat. If the animal does not improve, follow up by doing a fecal exam. If the reduction in fecal egg count is minimal, you may need to give a second dose of dewormer or to use a different dewormer.”

- Deborah Niemann
 

·
Registered
Kinder Goat Breeder
Joined
·
4,302 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
*Sigh* And this is why I hate chemical wormers. Because there are so many different opinions on what is and is not the best way to create resistance. I feel like nobody actually knows or there would be one answer.

I guess... I'm going to do some more research on my own and make a conclusion for myself. I'm leaning toward not treating again though.
 

·
Registered
Kinder Goat Breeder
Joined
·
4,302 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So how would you make a determination on whether or not it was a severe situation?
 

·
I'm watching you
Joined
·
22,567 Posts
Barber poleworm life cycle. Eggs are pooped out,they literally can't hatch inside the goat.
L1 larvae hatches under warm sunny conditions. It eats microbes from the poop until it sheds.
L2 larvae comes out of the poop and lives on free microbes in the ground. If winter comes before it sheds then it hibernates.

L3 larvae climbs up grass stems and sets up camp waiting for a likely host to eat them. They can climb higher on wet grass than dry.
They set up shop in the abomasium but only so many can fit. The new larvae shed to L4 and burrow into the small intestine to hibernate until their turn.
L5 are the egg layers.

It's not so much how many eggs they are showing now but how you are going to prevent them from eating more. How many are on the hay you're feeding?
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Top