My Bucks Have Bad Famacha

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by MellonFriend, Feb 12, 2021.

  1. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    Well we appear to be dealing with a worm bloom right now. We've had sudden warm temps in the 60s (sorry all you people dealing with artic weather) and it seem like this has caused a sudden spike in parasites for me. To be honest I haven't checked their FAMACHAs in a little while because they get freaked out when I mess with them. It was probably the beginning of January since I checked. Well they are bad, like a four. The worst I've seen. I gave them ivermectin orally and each a dose of red cell. I didn't even do a fecal because of how bad it is. I think I'll try to do one tomorrow. Is there anything else I should do for them? They are acting 100% normal, eating great, being rambunctious boys, poop looks normal.
     
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  2. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    That is fine. Do the Redcell for 5 days.
     
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  3. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    I normally would dose Ivermectin (1mL per 40 orally, or if you've used it in your herd a lot 1mL per 30lbs orally) with a second dewormer at the same, Safeguard or Valbazen at 1mL per 10lbs. Repeat both in 10-14 days
     
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  4. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I agree with all advice.
     
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  5. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    My vet said that ivermectin is still working in my area, I did 1cc per 34lbs. I've never used ivermectin before. Could I do a fecal in ten days and see how it is and then make a judgement on dosing again? Or are you recommending this even if the fecals look good?
     
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  6. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Doing it 10 days later would be wise.
    A fecal before giving it on the 10 day schedule would be good as well.
     
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  7. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    I'd recommend redosing in 10-14 days then a fecal analysis 2 weeks after that redosing
     
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  8. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the advice guys. Their Famacha looks a lot better today. I'm quite surprised at how fast it got better.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2021
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  9. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    Okay, so I need some hep understanding why it is that it is recommended to redose in 10-14 days. I just did a fecal and Phantom had an EPG of 450 and Cullen had an EPG of 350. Now I never did a fecal when I dosed them the first time, so I have no idea what kind of a reduction this is, but their FAMACHAs are looking a lot better. Should I still redose with the EPGs they got?
     
  10. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    Hopefully I get the science of this correct, here goes.

    When you dosed the first time you killed the adult, egg laying worms inside the goats. However, there were still eggs from those worms all over the environment and inside your goats. So now, 3 weeks later, those eggs that have survived and are in your goats have hatched and grown and are just becoming egg laying adults. So the second dose kills that next generation before you see another spike in egg counts.

    I understand your hesitancy to pump more poisons into your animals. And it is totally feasible that your goats immune systems can now manage better since you've got the load down. They are your goats and you can choose the best course of action!
     
  11. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    I may be totally wrong but @goathiker explained to me that the eggs are not hatched inside of the goat... she said she wasn't sure where the 10 day repeat came from, maybe she can explain more.
     
  12. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    That makes really good sense @SalteyLove. Thanks for the explanation :). I always feel like I should know why I'm doing something.

    I'm just recently learning how to handle chemical wormers and I want to be very cautious with how I deal them because I do not want to create resistance.
     
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  13. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    Don't give Valbezon if your does are pregnant.
     
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  14. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    I only have ivermectin, and I'm only treating my bucks chemically. ;)
     
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  15. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    Thrifty Homesteader:

    “Common Practice #3: Deworm your goats ten days after the initial deworming to kill parasites that have just hatched because the first deworming will not have killed the eggs. Of course, when you do that, you do kill some worms that have hatched, but you also wind up with more resistant parasites that survived the second deworming, increasing the number of resistant parasites on your pasture. The more often you use a dewormer, the faster you are breeding the parasites to be resistant to the dewormer you are using. This advice for a follow-up deworming was originally given for fenbendazole, which had poor efficacy against arrested worms, which would then be killed by the second dose a couple weeks later. Unfortunately, a lot of people concluded it would be a good idea with all dewormers, regardless of whether it was necessary. After using any dewormer, you should continue to monitor the body condition and anemia status of the goat. If the animal does not improve, follow up by doing a fecal exam. If the reduction in fecal egg count is minimal, you may need to give a second dose of dewormer or to use a different dewormer.”

    - Deborah Niemann
     
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  16. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    *Sigh* And this is why I hate chemical wormers. Because there are so many different opinions on what is and is not the best way to create resistance. I feel like nobody actually knows or there would be one answer.

    I guess... I'm going to do some more research on my own and make a conclusion for myself. I'm leaning toward not treating again though.
     
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  17. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    From what I have learned, if it’s a severe situation, doing a 10 day repeat helps get rid of arrested larvae that tend to become arrested due to the large quantity of worms in the area!
     
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  18. MellonFriend

    MellonFriend Well-Known Member

    So how would you make a determination on whether or not it was a severe situation?
     
  19. goathiker

    goathiker I'm watching you Staff Member Supporting Member

    Barber poleworm life cycle. Eggs are pooped out,they literally can't hatch inside the goat.
    L1 larvae hatches under warm sunny conditions. It eats microbes from the poop until it sheds.
    L2 larvae comes out of the poop and lives on free microbes in the ground. If winter comes before it sheds then it hibernates.

    L3 larvae climbs up grass stems and sets up camp waiting for a likely host to eat them. They can climb higher on wet grass than dry.
    They set up shop in the abomasium but only so many can fit. The new larvae shed to L4 and burrow into the small intestine to hibernate until their turn.
    L5 are the egg layers.

    It's not so much how many eggs they are showing now but how you are going to prevent them from eating more. How many are on the hay you're feeding?