Mystery chronic bloat & scours

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by Zippy Two Dogs, Oct 26, 2020.

  1. Zippy Two Dogs

    Zippy Two Dogs Member

    33
    May 4, 2020
    Georgia
    Hello goatie friends,

    Our boy Flapjack has had gut issues for ~4 mos now. He is constantly bloated (2nd photo is his belly compared to another), with runny, clumpy poops (3rd photo—though usually a bit runnier than this). They are not quite scours but not normal pellets either. He never seems uncomfortable; I know that doesn't mean it's not a problem though.

    Our goat vet did a checkup, said everything seemed normal, and a fecal which showed ZERO parasites—surprising but yay! The goats' diets have not changed, and the rest of the herd has completely normal poops. Saw on another forum that an ulcerated abomasum could be a possibility. Flapjack was bottle fed as a baby because he got septicemia and nearly died. Could ulceration be related to that early illness?

    I give him regular Probios but it doesn't seem to help. The only other thing I can think to do is wander our pasture to see if there's something toxic he's eating—don't know why he would be the only one affected.

    Totally open to any ideas or suggestions. I'm at a loss!

    0.jpg 0-2.jpg 0-3.jpg
     
  2. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    Start on garlic.

    Run another one or two fecals, a fecal with zero can mean they just weren’t dropping eggs at the time.

    Unusually large bellies can mean tapeworm and I don’t think it would hurt to treat for that (they don’t always show on fecals).

    I would start on an herbal program with Land of Havilah’s Parasite formula and GI Back On Tract.

    What is the goat’s rectal temp and FAMACHA?
     
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  3. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    I’m more worried about the poop texture issues than the belly, some do have very prominent rumens.
     
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  4. Zippy Two Dogs

    Zippy Two Dogs Member

    33
    May 4, 2020
    Georgia
    Famacha is ~2, good enough that our vet wasn't concerned. I'll check again tomorrow and take a temperature too.
    I have LOH's parasite formula but haven't done their dosing class yet. Thank you for the reminder—will also order some Back on Tract.
    He does have normal poops here and there. Do you think this could be caused by something he's eating regularly?
     
  5. Sfgwife

    Sfgwife Well-Known Member

    Feb 17, 2018
    North Cakalaki

    Dod the vet also look for cocci in the fecal? Also just because there were no eggs in the fecal does not mean there are no worms... simply could be that they are not shedding. It is rare to have a zero epg count.
     
  6. mariella

    mariella Well-Known Member

    Feb 23, 2017
    Prague Oklahoma
    maybe try some probiotics? I agree get another fecal done and ask the vet to look for cocci and tapes.
    He might need a rumen restart.
     
  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    What are you feeding and do they have access to weeds, lush grasses, shrubs, tree's?
    How much do they get of what you are feeding and are they grazing all day on something?

    For his rumen:
    Give probiotics and vit B complex SQ, 6 cc's per 100 lbs for a minimum of 4 days, 2 x a day.
     
  8. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    No need to take their course in my opinion, it was a waste for me - give twice a day for 3 days, then wait 4 days, and give once a day for 3 days again, then go to once or twice weekly.

    BUT BEFORE you start it, I would do 3 days of GI Back On Tract twice daily, then after the first 3 days of wormer give one more dose of it the day after.

    Must be given at least 2 hours apart from the parasite formula, BTW.
     
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  9. Zippy Two Dogs

    Zippy Two Dogs Member

    33
    May 4, 2020
    Georgia
    @NigerianDwarfOwner707 @toth boer goats temp is 100.2 and famacha is still a 2 (maybe between 2-3). Both of your suggestions sound good for getting his rumen back to proper functioning—can they work together or should I pick one over the other?

    I know that low temp (and his weird poops) suggest rumen issues but his appetite is always voracious, he is a piggy boy.
    I will collect another fecal to send off and test for cocci.

    Herd grazes most of the day with access to weeds like kudzu, some trees and shrubby stuff. No lush grass. Over the last year they've knocked down most of the kudzu and new plants have come up, like blue mist flower, ragweed, We have morning glory but I've never seen them eat it. They get hay in the evening, around a flake each, and have free choice minerals and baking soda. No grain.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2020
  10. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    May be over grazing for him?
    You can try to pull him off sooner and see if that helps.
    Then gradually increase his time out, so he adjusts better.

    There is no reason you cannot use what I suggested, with what the others suggested. ;)
     
  11. Zippy Two Dogs

    Zippy Two Dogs Member

    33
    May 4, 2020
    Georgia
    @toth boer goats Thank you! I have Kaeco brand B complex gel. Will oral dosing work instead or is SQ very important?
     
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  12. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    Maybe pull the baking soda, their bodies make it and if it is always available, it wont work if you need to give them more.
    What color is his poop?

    It may be that he is eating something that just doesn't agree with him. Some people can eat onions others cannot, etc.

    What sort of water does he get? The reason I ask is if city water- they change the chlorine etc. amounts based on times of the year, rain amounts etc. Chlorine will upset some animals stomachs.

    If temp is normal, you can give some banamine- it helps sooth the gut. (only ask vet first).
     
  13. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Glad to help.
    SQ injection is best.
    It is fortified vit b Complex or high vit B complex which has 100 mg of thiamine in it.
    Thiamine is great for the rumen health.
     
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  14. Zippy Two Dogs

    Zippy Two Dogs Member

    33
    May 4, 2020
    Georgia
    The Kaeco brand I have has 100mg of thiamine, 500mcg of vit b12, and 2 b. cfu of probiotics.
     
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  15. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    It should be SQ, the gel won't work as well. ;)
     
  16. Zippy Two Dogs

    Zippy Two Dogs Member

    33
    May 4, 2020
    Georgia
    Ok, will order some now. Ordered some Back on Tract earlier today. @Goats Rock , poop varies in color—often it is much lighter than the rest of the herd so it does seem like he's eating something the rest of them aren't? And he does get city water but it goes through a basic filter when it reaches our building.
     
  17. Goats Rock

    Goats Rock Member

    Jun 20, 2011
    NE Ohio
    In any goat herd, you will always have one that doesn't do what the rest do! Mine all avoid acorns except one, so that one isn't out if the acorns are down. (now). Since I live in the woods, there are zillions of acorns, he eats them like candy then gets really sick. So, no unattended time outside right now.
     
  18. Zippy Two Dogs

    Zippy Two Dogs Member

    33
    May 4, 2020
    Georgia
    Friggin' goats! Unfortunately we don't have any way of keeping one goat separate, they all live in our main pasture. We've talked about setting up an isolation pen in case of an emergency. You have a barn that everyone stays in?
     
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  19. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    I would offer more hay and maybe (likely) he will choose that over pasture.

    His temp is low - I really don’t like that, b Complex injections, and dark beer. 6oz of it, room temp, let it sit out in a bowl and flatten. Once daily for a week.

    I would send a fecal to MeadowMist Lab if you can.

    Start on those herbs as soon as possible, GI Back on Tract first, then the parasite formula. Alternatively you can start them at the same time just give 2 hours apart.
     
  20. Zippy Two Dogs

    Zippy Two Dogs Member

    33
    May 4, 2020
    Georgia
    Do you have drenching tips for the dark beer? Never drenched before but do have a drenching gun and have bolused plenty, seems pretty similar but intimidating nonetheless!

    Back on Tract should be here in a couple days ☺️