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goat girl x0x0
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay guys, I need you all to put your clever and knowledgable heads together and be detectives in helping find out what this illness is.
I lost Thomas to it just a week ago, and now Josh is starting to show the signs Thomas did when I first noticed something was wrong.
The first thing I noticed was he was walking strangely... kind of reluctantly, walking heavily, crossing over his front legs, his toes splayed.
Then he started flopping down to his knees when he didn't have to walk anymore, especially when he was given food, he'd lay down to eat it.
A few days later, his breathing started getting a bit raspy and laboured.
Was still interested in his food and quite happy to eat, but over the next week he got weaker and weaker, breathing getting worse, no appetite, not getting up etc, until he died.

Now josh is starting to walk funny and it's sending me into a panic because I don't want to lose him too.
I'll try attach a video to show you how he's walking, not sure how to get it off my phone.
Here's a picture of his feet while standing still:

image-3183583090.jpg
 

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Oh sweety I hope you find out what this is in time. My first thought is goat polio or some form of that. Have you tried fortified vitamin b complex? It has to have thiamin in it. I am sure someone more knowledgable will come on soon. I will be praying for you.
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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I was thinking White Muscle Disease right off so I went and looked it up. Take a look at this:

Vitamin E deficiency is independent of soil type and more closely reflects forage quality. Grazing animals usually consume adequate amounts of vitamin E. This is because fresh legumes and pasture are good sources of vitamin E, whereas silage, oil seeds, root crops, cereal grains, and dry hays tend to be poor sources of vitamin E. Prolonged storage of feedstuffs results in a degradation of Vitamin E activity, as much as 50% per month.

When the skeletal muscles are affected, symptoms vary from mild stiffness to obvious pain upon walking, to an inability to stand. Lambs/kids may tremble in pain when held in a standing position. A stiff gait and hunched appearance are common. Affected lambs/kids may remain bright and have normal appetites, but eventually they become too weak to nurse. When the problem occurs in newborns, they are born weak and unable to rise. Sudden exercise may trigger the condition in older lambs and kids.
When the disease affects the heart, the animal shows signs similar to pneumonia, including difficult breathing, a frothy nasal discharge (may be blood stained), and fever. The heart and respiratory rates are elevated and often irregular. Skeletal and cardiac muscle disease may occur concurrently.

Treatment
Treating the heart form of WMD is usually ineffective and those that survive often do not thrive because of the residual cardiac damage. The muscle form of the disease can be successfuly treated with supplemental selenium and/or vitamin E. Producers need to follow label directions carefully when using selenium for treatment. The concentrations of selenium (per ml) vary greatly with each product, and excessive or repeated injections can result in selenium toxicity and possibly death.
The commercially available selenium/vitamin E product(s) commonly used in the U.S. do not contain therapeutic levels of vitamin E. Additional vitamin E may need to be provided through an injection of vitamin E alone or through oral vitamin E products. Affected animals usually respond favorably to a single treatment of vitamin E and/or selenium in 24 hours, though recovery may not be complete, depending upon the severity of the condition. Animals which do not respond to treatment may be treated a second time. Treatment should not exceed two doses.


Taken from the following article: http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles/WMD.htm
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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Am still reading about WMD and will continue to post important info I come across. I have mentioned this piece before but may be relevant here as well.

We have since learned that the BoSe does not always have enough Vitamin E to do the job. If a kid is born to a previously treated doe and still has weak muscles, we have found that puncturing a Vitamin E capsule (1,000 mg) and squirting it into the kid's mouth will produce positive results within 12 hours.
 

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goat girl x0x0
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
TDG; my mum and I were starting to suspect WMD just before Thomas died. Do you think this is the case?
We have Vitamin E caps. Do we have to squirt it or could we just put it down his throat?

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to say, he is just coming on to 4 months now, they used to get an alfalfa/grass mix but we recently switched to just alfalfa because that was all the feed store had.
They got their shots and boosters as younger babies but I could'nt tell you the name, I had a friend do it for me.
 

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TDG; my mum and I were starting to suspect WMD just before Thomas died. Do you think this is the case?
We have Vitamin E caps. Do we have to squirt it or could we just put it down his throat?

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to say, he is just coming on to 4 months now, they used to get an alfalfa/grass mix but we recently switched to just alfalfa because that was all the feed store had.
They got their shots and boosters as younger babies but I could'nt tell you the name, I had a friend do it for me.
It looks like you open it up and put it down his throat... I think because it would absorb quicker? That is just what I goat by reading the article that TDG posted. I'm no expert, but as I'm reading this I think he's on to something. Praying your little guy makes it... He is soooo adorable, just like Thomas...
 

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goat girl x0x0
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
So puncturing and THEN forcing him to swallow the tablets? I think just trying to squirt bits of liquid in will get a bit messy :p
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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We use the same soft gels you buy for yourself outta the store. We give one of these everytime we give someone (mostly new born kids) a bo se shot. You can place the soft gel in the corner of your mouth and keep the end of it wet/damp. In a few minutes it should be soft enough to sqeeze and pop into the corner of their mouth. Throw the empty soft gel shell away. Yes, Janeen has it right, it just starts working faster. And as you/goats cant overdose on Vit E, the excess is passed in the urine. We found out the hard way on the farm we worked on that bo se isnt always enough. They always got great quality alfalfa and grain before kidding but like that article says, nothing beats fresh roughage.

Do I think it is WMD? I think its possible. More important, its easy and cheap to treat. If he hasnt had anymore bo se in awhile, you can give 1/2 cc once a day for 3 days. Id do a vit e one day, skip the second and do another one on the 3rd day. After this you dont wanna give any more bo se. Selenium levels can start to become toxic.
 

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goat girl x0x0
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Okie dokie, got the Vit E down pat
The problem is BoSe... I'm in australia and I don't know what the equivalent would be (if any?) or where to get it.
I will ask some australian friends what they think about that, and I can try get some Vit E down him now
Thanks for all the fast replies!
 

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Dave (TDG Farms) S.E. Washington State
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Had an idea. I think they sell selenium supplements in the same section they would the vit e. If they do you maybe able to grind up a pill or by chance find a soft gel as well? I removed the equivalent part as there are many conflicting suggestions on the net. And as I dont know your boys weight, I dont know what it would be.

Now with that said, I cant find bo se in Australia either. Granted I can find BOSE stereo speakers and headphones for freaking days... I hate it when they mess up searches with close matches. In any event, the one thing I did come across was, contact a vet and ask them if they have any or if they know where you can get it. Other then ordering on line and waiting the the 2 weeks or whatever it would take to get to you, the only option is selenium supplements from the durg/grocery store. It should be 1 pill a day for a person. Average figured weight would be 160 lbs. Now just need someone to chime in with what the bottle says for dosage and we can figure out how much of the pill to give.
 

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goat girl x0x0
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
We've had trouble finding the selenium in store, and I'm weary about the use because it can be bad for them if you give them too much (so I've read)
About two weeks ago at the vet he weighed about 16 and a half kg or about 36 lbs
I might call the vet tomorrow and ask what she thinks if I can talk to her. They're already closed today :(

We have this stuff called Clements Tonic which has selenium among other things in it that we could try as well
 

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goat girl x0x0
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Update: I posted on an Australian page and got back these two names for BoSe-like products
- Illium Selvite-E (sometimes hard to get apparently)
- Novartis B12 + Selenium

Hoping that the vet has something along those lines and doesn't charge me an arm and a leg :p
 

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I'm hoping your vet can help you today and get little Josh feeling better.

There are a bunch of different horse meds here in the state that have selenium in them. If your vet doesn't have the shot, I wonder if he can point you towards some over the counter horse supplements.

I also looked up a human selenium pill
http://www.drvitaminsolutions.com/p...ian_Capsules?gclid=CPjV9PCPvrkCFUXNOgodzVsAzg
200mcg per pill on this one. Another one from GNC had 100 per pill.
 

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From what I have been told by goat people I know (via internet) in Australia, there are a variety of insect borne diseases over there that cause neurological problems like you guy has, that usually ends in death if not treated aggressively. Do you have a vet you can see?
 

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goat girl x0x0
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
From what I have been told by goat people I know (via internet) in Australia, there are a variety of insect borne diseases over there that cause neurological problems like you guy has, that usually ends in death if not treated aggressively. Do you have a vet you can see?
I haven't heard about that, I could look into it. And I do have a vet but she's not really very experienced with goats, nobody is around here :(

I hope this thread helps about homemade bose gel

http://www.thegoatspot.net/forum/f187/homemade-bose-119536/#post1058504

I was looking for myself when my doe was pregnant. I didn't actually use it though.

good luck, and keep us posted!
Thanks, ill look at that!
 
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