Need Advise on problem w/ new borns

Discussion in 'Kidding Koral' started by ARayt, Dec 26, 2010.

  1. ARayt

    ARayt New Member

    26
    Jan 21, 2010
    Middle Georgia
    I've had three newborns in the last two days , and two of them I lost. Not sure whats going on. They can't seem to stand. All three mothers are first timers and one of the mothers did not seem interested in the new born. All mothers are healthy. I separated them into by kiddin pens and found both dead, one this morning and one a few hours ago. Its real cold here 25 degrees or so and very windy. The third baby seems to have the same problem. I've done some research and the closes thing I see is floppy kid syndrome. But based on what I’ve read it occurs about 2-3 days after birth. Any advice would be appreciated.
    Ray
     
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Did mom or babies get any BoSe shot?

    If cold are you warming them up and making sure they are nursing before leaving them? Did you squirt milk out of the teat to make sure the plug is out?
     

  3. firelight27

    firelight27 Hopelessly Addicted

    Apr 24, 2009
    Southern Oregon
    Were you present for the births? You could have easily lost kids because they didn't get air fast enough, were not warmed fast enough, etc. If I have kids born that are weak they get taken inside, especially if it is cold. I give BoSe because the area I live in is deficient in selenium (selenium deficiency in newborns can cause weak legs.) I had a couple does kid when it was very cold last year and they will die very quickly if they get too chilled. The doe that kidded in the coldest weather had kids that were pretty much non-responsive after only a minute out of the womb because they got cold. I took them in and put them under a heating pad, made sure they were very dry and syringe fed them colostrum and karo syrup mixed with pedialyte to give them an energy boost. Nutri-drench is also amazing. If I hadn't brought them in they would have died. They came around after a few hours. You can also put them in a warm bath while holding their heads up out of the water to bring up their body temperature more quickly...............Also, if the kids were weak and cold when they were born, they may not have been able to nurse as quickly as normal and may have missed that all important colostrum (or not gotten enough), which means their immune system is poor now (the surviving kid), because they didn't get the anti-bodies they needed.

    If you can be there for the births, your kids have a much, much better chance of surviving should a problem arise. It really sounds to me like they may be getting chilled. I would be putting a heat lamp over the pen, moving them into a place where no wind can reach them and maybe even making them little sweaters out of socks. Personally, I would bring them in and keep them warm until they are behaving like normal, active kids.
     
  4. ARayt

    ARayt New Member

    26
    Jan 21, 2010
    Middle Georgia
    The mothers did not get a shot of BoSe and I was not present during birth. One of the babies was nursing adn running around yesterday. I had a problem like this last year and started giving minerals both block and loose hoping this would aleviate/ prevent this. But it sounds to me like a selenium difficiency. I'm going back to see if I can assist w/ nursing the other. I do not have any BoSe. Would you recommend starting bottle feeding? And if so will the mother take back over? This is because no one is here during the most part of the day due to work hours and it will be difficult bottle feeding at a set schedule. Thank you for teh quick response.
    Ray
     
  5. firelight27

    firelight27 Hopelessly Addicted

    Apr 24, 2009
    Southern Oregon
    If the mother has bonded with her kid, you shouldn't have much of a problem bottle feeding some and then putting them back on mom. When I take any weak kids inside at birth I have never had any problems having them away from mom all night or even longer and then taking them back out to her. Mom is always happy to see them and accepts them, as long as she had the opportunity to sniff and lick them at birth and was accepting of them at that point. If you feel bottle feeding would help, there is no reason not to try. I would personally take the kid's temperature to see if they are too cold as well. The body temp should be between 101.5 and 103.5. If it is too low the kid needs taken inside and warmed up. If it is too high you need to reduce the fever. This is a great article:

    http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/artic ... ids06.html

    You can get BoSe from a vet easily, and if not you can get a selenium/vit. E gel at a lot of feed stores. I personally don't think the gel is as effective as BoSe as it doesn't get directly into the bloodstream and is a little harder to figure out frequency of dosage...but it is better than nothing. You just have to be cautious not to over-dose selenium as it can be fatal.
     
  6. ARayt

    ARayt New Member

    26
    Jan 21, 2010
    Middle Georgia
    Good news, When back to check on them and the baby was standing next to Mom. Got to see it nurse for a few minutes so I did not give it any of the bottle I fixed. He (its a boy)was wagging its tail and seemed happy as could be. Maybe I did not give him enough time after the first problem. I got inside the house w/ them and it seemed warm. I also ordered some BoSe from VetServ.com. just in case I need it in the future. Still not sure about my others, maybe it was due to the temperatures and/or because they were first time mothers. Boy I wish they would deliver in the spring. I'll keep my fingers crossed and thanks again for the help.
    Ray
     
  7. liz

    liz Well-Known Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    According to the selenium map printed inside the Hoeggers Supply catalog, Georgia is one of the states that has a variable amount of natural selenium, if you are feeding locally grown hay and providing a goat specific mineral with selenium, your goats should have adequate levels in their systems.
    My bet would be that the 2 babies you lost caught chill and did not get enough colostrum, they need to eat within an hour of birth in order to be able to get the full benefits as well as full bellies to help keep them warm. Nutri Drench is also great to give a kick start to kids needing the boost.
     
  8. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Didn't read through everything, but for next time, BoSe definately should be given to the mother before kidding and also free choice minerals should be out year round to help with deficiencies. This sounds like what's going on. Sorry for your losses. :(
     
  9. ARayt

    ARayt New Member

    26
    Jan 21, 2010
    Middle Georgia
    Thanks for all the advise, the baby is doing great this morning.
    Ray
     
  10. firelight27

    firelight27 Hopelessly Addicted

    Apr 24, 2009
    Southern Oregon
    I strongly agree with Liz. Like I said, a chill and a lack of colostrum probably killed the others. When they are chilled at birth they are weak and can not stand and nurse properly. If they don't get that colostrum within the first critical hours of birth the window to be able to get those antibodies closes on them. Their stomach stops being able to absorb the colostrum quickly, and mom's milk transforms from colostrum to normal milk. Without the colostrum, they are as good as dead, because their immune systems can't function properly.

    Again, you really need to try and be their for the births. Chilled kids can easily be saved by being brought inside and warmed, and they could have been fed colostrum with a syringe if they were too weak to nurse on their own. You just have to milk some out of mom. If you don't know the due dates, or even the approximate due dates, you can still catch the births by checking the ligaments. When the ligaments above their tailhead disappear completely, you will have kids very soon and should check on your doe every hour for signs of labor.
     
  11. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    I leaning toward what KW said very well.

    Kids do amazing in cold so long as bedding is dry & they're in a draft free area.
    Re: bringing in for bath...place kid in plastic garbage back & hold head out of water. If she does get wet spots use hair dryer & hot towels (rags) from the dryer. I dont this unless kid is absolutely cold, standing hunched with a cold mouth.

    ETA; After kid is throroughly dry put in box with heating pad & do not feed unless temp is above 100.

    ARayt You are right abt floppy kid it takes a few days usually for it to really manifest itself & it goes beyond just wobbly legs, which normally disapper in a couple days. Floppy kid is hopping or actually dragging rear legs, at least that was my only experience with it.
    Glad to hear she's doing better!

    Sue Reith & Coni Ross have excellent info on FKS & how to recognize & treat
     
  12. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    I am glad to hear... the baby is better....great news... :thumb: :wink: