Need help AGAIN!!

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by goatmama2, Jul 21, 2008.

  1. goatmama2

    goatmama2 New Member

    178
    Oct 20, 2007
    Upstate New York
    :GAAH:
    I am waging a never-ending battle with my buckling, Caper. He is now on his third bout of diarrhea!!! Or is it fourth??? Anyway, when he gets it I treat him with Kaopectate and give him di-meth for possible coccidia every day for a week. It clears up and all is well. Then I stop, he goes about two weeks with nice firm berries, then he has it again! I have kept him away from grass and clover. He gets only a little bit of grain each feeding, and he's nursing mama during the day only. What am I doing wrong? I am afraid I'm going to lose this little guy eventually. BTW, he doesn't act sick in the least little bit. He's peppy and eating well. Please advise! Thank you, Brooke
     
  2. goatnutty

    goatnutty Active Member

    Oct 9, 2007
    South East,IN
    Have you wormed him?You are doing every thing fine it's not your fault.
     

  3. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    first I would take a sample of his diarreah to the vet to get it checked. What you are using for coccidia probably isnt going to get rid of it. But there is a chance it isnt' cocci but worms.

    I would stop the meds and get a fecal done to determin what the issue is. Pumping meds continually into him is going ot weaken his immune system and cause more damage right now.
     
  4. susanne

    susanne New Member

    257
    Nov 12, 2007
  5. Sybil

    Sybil New Member

    140
    Dec 21, 2007
    Rainier, Oregon
    Get a fecal done and make sure it not cocci or worms. If it is cocci make sure your dosing the medication at the proper dose and for the specific period of time recommended. Are you able to move him to clean ground/area. Also if it is cocci you might check into deccox to add to his milk or grain until he gets old enough to develop some natural immunity against it. Good Luck!
    Sue
     
  6. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    I agree with the previous posts, stop the meds and have a fecal done, over time if the situation continues his system will build immunity to the meds you are using, quite possibly for the wrong reason. As long as he is eating and staying hydrated going a few days with no meds will be fine til you can get a fecal done, and go from there with the vets advice. If it is cocci, Albon may be what the vet reccomends or a preventive regimen with the Deccox.
     
  7. goatmama2

    goatmama2 New Member

    178
    Oct 20, 2007
    Upstate New York
    Sorry everyone, I couldn't get back onto the computer yesterday, the server was down or something. I really really appreciate everyone's advice and comments. My husband is on his way to the vet's now with a fecal sample; unfortunately, I couldn't get him (the goat, not my husband) to poop, so I had to send some of the dried stuff from his legs. I hope it will still work. To answer some of your questions, his stall was cleaned frequently, which of course doesn't mean he isn't still eating soiled hay at times, but we're trying. I was giving him, for one week, 1 cc of di-meth in his grain; he and his sister share the grain so I put in a little bit more so they would both get some. He has not been wormed yet because I've been waiting for him to reach the 3 month old mark, but I have been giving a little of the Hoegger's wormer once a week.
    I will write back when I hear from the vet and let you all know what she has to say! If it's worms, I may ask advice on what to give him and how much depending on which worms we're dealing with. Thank you all again. I hate feeling like I'm letting my baby down! :cry: Brooke
     
  8. goatmama2

    goatmama2 New Member

    178
    Oct 20, 2007
    Upstate New York
    Ooops, I forgot...he hasn't had any meds for about a week and a half. I've been holding off to see if the diarrhea came back, and when it did yesterday I decided to wait until testing.
     
  9. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    It is entirely possible that if it is a worm overload, the herbal wormer isn't effective in ridding him of the parasites...I do hope the vet can give you an answer as to what the problem is and what to use, I don't have experience with the herbals and choose to use the chemical wormers such as ivomectin and safeguard..they are readily available and have worked well for me, just as your regimen has worked for you...but this kid may need to have something other than what you normally use. :greengrin:
     
  10. goatmama2

    goatmama2 New Member

    178
    Oct 20, 2007
    Upstate New York
    Okay, the vet just called and it is definitely coccidia. They only have Albon in tablets, and when I looked for suspesion online, it was like $85!!! I want to try it since the di-meth doesn't seem to work for long, but that's mighty expensive. Should I get the tablets and crush them to a powder? Where do you guys usually get your Albon? Please reply as I need to get some soon! Thanks all!
     
  11. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    I got my albon from the vet....it was included in the price of the visit....cheap too, Sulmet is another name for it and I believe it is cheaper, Stacey has used the Sulmet liquid I believe, Jeffers carries it by the gallon...but the wait to ship is critical for your little guy, see how much the vet will charge for the 5 day course of treatment with the Albon and have them help with the doseage...thats what they do and they really shouldn't charge you any extra for the info.
     
  12. susanne

    susanne New Member

    257
    Nov 12, 2007
  13. all1965

    all1965 New Member

    381
    Oct 6, 2007
    AR
    Our vet gave us something called Sul-Q-Nox. It works great for us. You give it at a rate of 1.5 cc per 50 lbs for 3 days in a row. We usually ad syrup to it because it taste really bad and the kids act like their ieing if we don't cut it with something.

    It is also very resonably priced and is in liquid form. You just have to be real precise with the dosage and you don't want to overdose. Here is a link t where you can buy some http://www.pipevet.com/antibio.asp?cat=1 although I got mine from my vet. It's in ABC order so just scroll down.
     
  14. goatmama2

    goatmama2 New Member

    178
    Oct 20, 2007
    Upstate New York
    Thanks, guys. One more silly question...isn't the active ingredient in Di-meth the same as what's in Albon? I'm sure I read somewhere that they are basically the same thing. I may try the di-meth again as I know it's cleared it up before. The vet thinks he just keeps re-infecting himself. Urg! :GAAH:
     
  15. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    You are right, it's the same ingredient....s-dimethoxine, but you may have been under dosing him ....I do believe the treatment doseage for cocci is different than the preventive doseage.

    With the Di-Methox 40% it's advised to start treatment at 3 weeks of age at 1/2cc twice a day for 1 week then just a 1/2cc once a week til weaned. I would imagine that the "strength" of the sulfa drug is different for treatment and prevention.
    Jeffers has the 16oz bottle of Sulmet for $8 plus shipping....the dose is for cattle at 6 tablespoons per 100 pounds...I'm sure that Stacey can provide the doseage as she has used the sulmet before.

    viewtopic.php?f=26&t=89
    This is where you can find the info on the doseage that Stacey uses :greengrin:
     
  16. goatmama2

    goatmama2 New Member

    178
    Oct 20, 2007
    Upstate New York
    Yes, that's pretty much the exact prevention routine I follow. But once I went to once a week, the trouble started. Because they are bigger now, I give them 1cc each for a week and am trying to get back to once a week once things seem under control. I am very frustrated and I don't want to lose this little guy. We may not end up keeping him, but I want him healthy. Poor thing!
     
  17. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I dont know if the Dimethox is the same active ingredient but I would believe not.

    Albon and sulmet are the same active ingredient I do believe.

    Sulmet worked and then sulmet didnt work. So I do believe that having an accurate weight and sometimes dosing for 9 days is a good idea in the extremly bad cases.

    My vet gave me albon tablets. It was expensive but it saved my goaties life so you do what you got to do.

    Dosage for Sulmet which you can find at the feed store or online is

    day1
    1cc per 5lbs of body weight
    day 2-5 (or 9)
    1cc per 10lbs of body weight.

    I learned through treating my little boy that sometimes 9 days is needed and for that extra sence of assurance that he is totaly healthy those 4 other days can mean the difference.

    Since the vet didnt see him but just the fecal I am sure he would have told you your boy is dehydrated. So I would make sure you get plenty of fluids in him. Rhythm didnt look dehydrated and he had only the diarreah for 8 or so hours but the vet said he was and gave him 20ccs (or was it 200? hmm)of SQ fluids and his body soak it up in no time!!!!!

    Please get a good weight on the kid before dosing. And if you have any other kids I strongly suggest you treat them too. If one has it the others do as well.

    I myself lost a kid to cocci possibly this year and I know a lady who lost I believe it was 5 kids to coccidia. This can be devistating so dont wait till they all get really bad before treating.
     
  18. goatmama2

    goatmama2 New Member

    178
    Oct 20, 2007
    Upstate New York
    I AM SOOO CONFUSED!!! I keep looking for Sulmet and Albon, and when I read the "labels" they all say they contain sulfadimethazine, which is what I'm already giving him! Is any one better or worse than the other? He still has messy poops, even with the dimeth and the kao, and I'm really afraid I'm going to lose this guy. I hate to order something that's the same as what I'm doing, since this doesn't seem to be working any more (it did the last times, though).
     
  19. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    you need to get a fecal run by the vet to determine what you need to treat him with. He could have worms or something else. or be clear but the meds have messed up his system so that he now has dirreah. I wouldnt do anythign else until you get that fecal done.

    edit:

    sorry I get confused if I dont read these things daily. I went back, ok he does have cocci. What did the vet recomend?

    Sometimes even if the active ingredient is the same thing it has different amounts of it per dosage.

    I would go with albon - yes expensive - but worth it in the end.

    Sulmet either powder (ask enjoytheride for directions on that) or the liquid. And use the directions I gave you before.

    make sure you have an accurate weight on him. You want to dose according to weight and you want it to be effective
     
  20. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    I buy the powdered Sulmet from Jeffer- it's really inexpensive- and make it up to store in jars in the fridge as needed. For the same price as an already made up solution, I get the equivalent of 10 or more bottles. Also I treat preventatively at 25 day intervals- treat for 5 days then 25 days after the last treatment, do again. I do it regularly til the kid is 5 mos old or so.
    Also he must be re-infecting himself very fast (or has an impaired immune system.) In this case, I think I would treat the adults too. Although the adults are more resistant to the damage caused by cocci, they can have it, be shedding eggs and re-infecting the kid. If you can slow down the adult's shedding the eggs, it may help the kid until his own immune system kicks in better.