Need help quick or I'm going to lose my buckling

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by drdolittle, Jul 9, 2014.

  1. drdolittle

    drdolittle New Member

    40
    Jul 9, 2014
    Crawfordville, FL
    I have a 4 month old buckling born on my 10 acre property to a doe that I bought bred. He is presently very ill with the scours. I have done anything and everything I can think of for him. His sister died overnight with no symptoms about 5 weeks ago. She had a little diarrhea next to her body. Several days to a week later, approximately the beginning of June, I noticed 3 of my youngest goats including this little guy, starting to scour. They were all wormed with Safegard. I treated the water with tetracycline and gave Scourgard as directed. The other 2 cleared up quickly. This guy has had the scours for A MONTH! It had gotten to projectile clear liquid. I took a fecal sample to the vet 2 weeks ago and he checked it. He said he saw nothing to account for that watery diarrhea, a few parasitic cysts but nothing to that level. He suggested re-worming with cydectin and 5 days of Pencillin subQ, which we did. The watery diarrhea became opaque and thick enough to stick to testicles and legs but not thick enough to be called paste. I give 16-24 oz of electrolytes daily with probiotics added, he normally drinks it up, and 20 cc of kaolin-pectin with 15 cc of yogurt once daily, which I have to drench down. I see no improvement. An old cowboy rancher told me to give him flour dough balls. Said they used them for scouring cattle, 3-4 dough balls x 3-4 days to dry them right up. I did make up some marble sized balls and added salt to them he gobbled them right up yesterday and today.....no improvement. The cowboy also said that the electrolytes would CAUSE him to scour and that I should stop that. At this point I am so confused and feel like I have tried EVERYTHING and the little guy has lost a lot of weight. I don't know how long he can hold on. He does still forage in the field and has eaten some dry hay but not a lot. He nibbles at the grain which I know he should not have but he is just withering away. Today he ate no hay and no grain and he is looking pretty weak. Please, if any one has any ideas please let me know. Also how can I get some weight on, should I bother to stress him by washing him off....he is a mess. Oh, the diarrhea is a light yellowish brown color, more brown, not green, grey or yellow, no bubbles and smells but vet had no real answers.
     
  2. lovinglife

    lovinglife Active Member

    930
    Jun 6, 2013
    Southern Idaho
    Did you treat for Cocci?
     

  3. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    Has the buckling been vaccinated with a Clostridium (C/D) vaccine? Even if he has, I would ask your vet or goat friends if they have Clostridium (C/D) Anti-Toxin (NOT the vaccine/toxoid, the anti-toxin) and get that in him ASAP.

    Your friend is correct that the sugars in electrolytes can cause additional scouring but he does need the hydration badly obviously.

    Has he had coccidia treatment? I am unfamiliar with tetracycline so I'm not sure if that is a coccidiastat. Typically people use Sulmet, Corid, Baycox, etc.
     
  4. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    Also B-complex is really important to improving his appetite, and I would continue the pro-bios daily and convince him to eat as much browse and hay as possible!

    You can cut hay in to short pieces and stick a few in the back of his mouth - he really needs his rumen working!
     
  5. drdolittle

    drdolittle New Member

    40
    Jul 9, 2014
    Crawfordville, FL
    The SpectoGard Scour Check and the Tetracycline should have covered E. coli and cocci. He has not been vaccinated against C/D but apparently the vet thought he would have seen something about that on the fecal sample and did not but he still recommended the penicillin injections x 5 days. How do I give B-complex? Can I mix it with his electrolytes and probios and have him drink it? Should I get alfalfa or peanut hay because they are higher in protein or will that be too much for his gut? Does anyone know about the dough balls? Is there an electrolyte without the sugar? Thank you so much for any help. The vet thought it might be an inflamed gut and the Kaopectate would coat him. When it happens in people you put them on a clear liquid diet and rest the gut. Guess I can't do that with a goat. His urine is fine so far, nice and clear and moving well.
     
  6. lottsagoats1

    lottsagoats1 Well-Known Member

    Apr 12, 2014
    Middle Maine
    Tetracyclene is not a cocci treatment. I would get probiotics into him to replace the ones that the antibiotics killed.

    Cocci will not always show up on a fecal if they have had severe scouring. I would treat for cocci asap.

    Dexamethasone IM to help calm the inflammation and reduce scar tissue.

    Blackberry leaves can help stop scours. I use psyllium for scours.

    IV fluids may help him.
     
  7. drdolittle

    drdolittle New Member

    40
    Jul 9, 2014
    Crawfordville, FL
    What do you use for Cocci? How much Dexa would you use give a goat that weighs probably 20 pounds now? I will hunt blackberry leaves and where are you getting psylium and how do you give it?
     
  8. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    Sulmet, corid, di-methox, or baycox for the cocci. If it is cocci and has been going this long he may have some intestinal damage and nutrient absorption issues.
     
  9. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    You can use Banamine. 1cc per 100 lbs SQ or IM.

    Baycox is the 1 time treatment but you may have to do a follow up dose. I don't use it so don't know dosing or frequency.

    I think his rumen is way out of wack and needs something stronger like a rumen bolus. You should be able to get that from your vet. It would be a cow bolus and should only be to get the rumen going again. Not anything additional in it. The other option is giving him cud from another goat that has a healthy rumen.

    Anything you introduce should be slow. You could try introducing a very small amount of hay but it is so hard to say.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
  10. drdolittle

    drdolittle New Member

    40
    Jul 9, 2014
    Crawfordville, FL
    Is the baycox a one time dose? And how do I fix his intestinal damage and absorption issues?
     
  11. drdolittle

    drdolittle New Member

    40
    Jul 9, 2014
    Crawfordville, FL
    Oh my, he is about 20 pounds now. That would be ONE DROP of banamine.....
     
  12. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    That would be .02 cc of Banamine. I use a 1cc syringe for those small doses.

    TGS keeps quitting on me so you will have to go back to my previous post for what else I said.
     
  13. drdolittle

    drdolittle New Member

    40
    Jul 9, 2014
    Crawfordville, FL
    I have seen cattle bolus at Tractor supply or Ace Hardware, is that not the same thing?
     
  14. drdolittle

    drdolittle New Member

    40
    Jul 9, 2014
    Crawfordville, FL
    Good thing it's a small dose and small needle because he doesn't have much muscle mass to shoot. Thank you for all your help. I will be at the store tomorrow. I hope we still have time.
     
  15. ksalvagno

    ksalvagno Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    If it has anything in it beyond probiotic and yeast, then it is different. There are ones that have medication type stuff in them. The one from the vet is stronger too.
     
  16. Jessica84

    Jessica84 Well-Known Member

    Oct 27, 2011
    California
    When my does stomach was all out of Wack I gave her yogurt with active coulter and flat dark beer. She went from deaths back door to alive and well.
    Is the runs still white?? We had white runs to threw our calfs a few years back. Gave them a good dose of neomycin and cleared them right up. No clue what it was but it worked. You can get neomycin from tractor supply.


    Sent from my iPhone using Goat Forum
     
  17. NubianFan

    NubianFan New Member

    Jun 2, 2013
    Arkansas
    I would treat for Cocci asap, though right now it isn't presenting as cocci typically does I would still treat to be safe. It will kill them if left to run rampant. I used sulmet to no avail with mine, lost two, I didn't get my other one over it til I switched to dimethox. I would go dimethox or baycox if it were me. Keep him hydrated, I would keep giving him the electrolytes. I gave my girl red cell and stock pepto to soothe tummy and boost iron.
     
  18. happybleats

    happybleats Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    A bolus would help..even if you have to steal a cud from another goat..a yucky job but worth it if ithelpd your little man. Probioitcs, Milk Kiefer, Yogurt..all are good to give...Dark flat beer....

    Keeping him hydrated is very important even if you need to give IV fluids..

    Check for anemia as well..http://goat-link.com/content/view/110/107/#.U74cN41dV2A

    Make little balls out of hay and stuff it toward the back of his mouth, see if he will eat it...if not try a moosh of alfalfa pellets and a turkey baster...

    Baycox is 1 cc per 10# booster in 10 days...works great but unless you have it on hand..you dont have time to order it for him...Dimethox is the next best choice...1 cc per 5# day one and 1 ccper 10# day 2-5....this is undiluted...

    safeguard does not work on many worms...choose a broader wormer like valbazen would be wise...1 cc per 10#...or ivomec plus 1 cc per 33# oral or 1 cc per 40# sub Q.
     
  19. kccountryfarm

    kccountryfarm New Member

    159
    Apr 2, 2014
    Oregon
    Does he have a fever? Here's what the vet told me to do for a doe that was sick...Sulfamethazine, Resorb, electrolytes (there's a recipe online...ACV, molasses, salt and water) they love it. No grain. If he is too weak you may have to drench him with the resorb and electrolyte water. Probios, B complex shot, wormer like Ivomec. With the antibiotic make sure that you don't give probios right away. Probios inactivates the antibiotic. Continue to monitor his temperature. I hope this helps. I know how helpless you can feel when you have sick goats. It's been a crazy year here on my farm too. It must be in the air. Good luck to you. Keep us informed.
     
  20. joybell74

    joybell74 New Member

    2
    Jul 10, 2014
    Electrolytes: get unflavored pedialite from the baby food section of the grocery store. It is not sugared (last I checked), like Gatorade and other electrolyte drinks.

    Vitamin B: injectable available at TractorSupply. (I just got B and Penicillin there for my goat.)

    I would not give dough balls, because I have heard that gluten can mess up their digestive system. Tho I could be wrong about that.

    Hope you can save him! So hard when they are sick, and nothing seems to work.