need your opinions ... ( long )

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by lacy_94, May 24, 2008.

  1. lacy_94

    lacy_94 New Member

    192
    Oct 6, 2007
    North Fla
    Ok please tell me what you think. I will not get offended or anything....

    I have had these 2 twin goats... They are Boer goats and 7 months old. They only weigh 40 pounds a piece... Our other Boer goat(the same age) is 100 plus pounds and super healthy. We have no clue why they arent growing like the other goat ?. They are raised the same.Plus get the same food and wormed with ivemec. So we called the lady we got the healthy Boer goat from and she said that the babies probably have coccidia ...We got on the Internet and looked it up and found that coccidia will stunt the growth of goats and killed the stomach lining ,so that no nutrients are processed . So great... My mom works at a vet clink and she worked today and we got some corid and we are planning on drenching them with that. But let me mind you that,the twins were born ,and their mom died the same day and they had no colostrum from her. Somehow we saved them and bottle fed them on Purina goat milk stuff.

    The other healthy goat was raised on a bottle ,but was with his mom for about 3 weeks.

    Is there any chance we can get these babies to catch back up ? or will we be stuck with mini Boer goats. That means that they probably want live long ?

    We Have a mineral block in there pens and keep the pens clean. The other thing is they are in with my bigger goats... I know that if the babies are ingesting the older goats poop ,they can get cossidia from them...

    The feed we are feeding them is medicated and we start the drench today.

    please anyone have any ideas on the situation ??
    Goat are really proving to be a problem.
     
  2. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    If they have been getting medicated feed all along, they should have been treated for cocci- they only medicated feed I know has a coccistat in it.
    A fecal sample is a great idea before you start as cocci shows up in that. Also if you give Corid and are feeding a medicated feed with a coccistat in it, you could give your animals goat polio by killing off too much of the good bacteria that are producing B1 for your goats.

    And yes, the cocci can be shared by all.

    I have also bottle feed a baby with no mother's colostrum and it did not effect her resistance to cocci.

    Something does not quite sound right about this- did they ever have any other symptoms of cocci? Are they pure or full bloods or precentage Boers?
     

  3. badnewsboers

    badnewsboers New Member

    429
    May 9, 2008
    Newport, NC
    Is their size the only reason you believe they have Coccidia? Don't give them that medication then. If they don't have the severe runs then you'll just be overloading their bodies on unneeded medicine. Get a fecal done if it will make you feel better.

    Bottle feeding does slow growth compared to dam fed babies (especially with the powdered milk replacer) but I've never seen it to be that extreme. Still since they had such a rocky start that could very well be the reason why they are so small. Are they fullblood boers or crossed with something? And some lines are slower growing so that combined with their early months and that might be their problem. They could be stunted right now but could very well catch up again. One of my friend's show doe would get sick when traveling, and the constant tress made her stop growing. She was the size of one of my 4 month old kids at almost a year. Yet she's managed to grow out nicely once show season was over and the stress was gone.
     
  4. lacy_94

    lacy_94 New Member

    192
    Oct 6, 2007
    North Fla
    We have to take the goat in and do a direct fecal. this morning we took some poop in but the doctor dint see any but, since it wasn't fresh, the cossi bactiral might have died.

    we will try to get on tuesday. We have seen the "runs" in them a few days ago.

    I will try to get pics. The female is severly skinny ... I dont understand. Her boty must not be proccessing the nutrients in the food and minerals.

    We started them out on 18 % feed. Then 15% , and just started the meticated feed this week. But the goat lady told us the feed will not properly kill the cossi without other treatments. I will try to get pics. brb
     
  5. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    the lack of collostrum when born is probably the main culpret. It ccan lead to their bodies not having the ability to fight off normal disease including cocci.

    I have been told by my vet that you can get a fresh sample and leave it in the fridge for a day and it is still good the next to view for worms or cocci.

    "the runs" could be anything and if they stopped more then likely it was a simple upset stomach.

    If you do treat them for cocci I suggest Sulmet or Albon:

    day 1
    1cc per 5lbs
    day 2-5
    1cc per 10lbs

    Follow up with thamine treatments if possible
     
  6. lacy_94

    lacy_94 New Member

    192
    Oct 6, 2007
    North Fla
    Almost forgot , Im pretty sure the twins are percentage... The buck accidentally got out and bred the does. For some reason I really think the dam and sire were brother and sister. Not sure but could that be a reason for stunt growth ?.

    The dude we got them from was just gonna let them die but we took them.



    Here is the healthy buck.
    [​IMG]


    Here is the buckling twin.
    [​IMG]



    Here is the doeling twin.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. lacy_94

    lacy_94 New Member

    192
    Oct 6, 2007
    North Fla
    thaks stacey but the vet said that the reasent strands of cossi going around arent being treated properly treated with albon,so we are using corid.

    But if yall think its not cossi then what might be causing them not to gain wheight and be thin ?
     
  8. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    just becareful with Corid. Many vets are not versed in the dangers of using corid due to it causing polio.

    If the fecal shows cocci then it is a good possibility on why they are stunted.

    Have the vet check also for worms and then let us know what kidn of worms so we can recomend a wormer - dont' go on the vets recomendation and purchase from him as it will cost you an arm and a leg and might not be effective. Now if he is a goat vet then thats a different story but even horse vets dont' know a thing about what works and what doesn't for goats and the dosage amounts.
     
  9. goathappy

    goathappy New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Illinois
    It may be a possibility that they could have gotten cocci when they were younger, and it has stunted their growth now. Don't give them the cocci drug unless you are sure they have it now.

    A couple years ago we were given two bottle baby wethers and we fed them powdered replacer from the store, they never grew like they were supposed to and they always seemed small(those horns sure got big though....) Our bottle babies raised on goat's milk are actually bigger than our dam raised kids.

    If they are stunted from cocci or some other cause, it may just take them a while to catch up, it may even take a couple months. Feed them good quality hay, free choice minerals, and a good food(not to much so they don't get fat) They may come around eventually, you never know.

    As far as Corid goes, MAKE SURE you are giving them the correct dose for the correct period of time. Corid is an amprolium wormer, like sulfa drugs, it depletes the rumen of thiamin, because cocci thrive on thiamin in the rumen. A day after treatment is finished(not during treatment) start giving them thiamin/B complex shots one or two times a day for two or three days. This will replenish the thiamin in the rumen. Corid is only bad if you don't know how to properly use it.
     
  10. lacy_94

    lacy_94 New Member

    192
    Oct 6, 2007
    North Fla
    yall are right the vet is a horse vet and doesnt know much about goats. I will def not use the corid intill I can take the goat in and have a fecal done and stuff.
    thanks, for the info yall. I will keep yall updated on there growth.
     
  11. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    Let me get it straight- how long have you had these kids? What exactly are you feeding?
    The girl does look rough coated- so I do think she needs something. Maybe a good worming?
    If you have not had them long, they may need time to improve.
    Re:medicated feed- treating them for cocci is a good idea, even if you didn't see anything in the fecal. Especially if they came from someone who did not treat them well.
    But I wouldn't do the treated feed at the same time because that would be like treating them with twice the medication and that can cause problems. Seriously- one or other but not both together.
    But remember to switch feeds slowly. A little grain for awhile is much better than too much.
     
  12. lacy_94

    lacy_94 New Member

    192
    Oct 6, 2007
    North Fla
    I had the twin since birth, the doe has very bristly hair. and it apperas thin. the boy has shaggy fur and is really soft..

    they have meticated feed but I (and mom) wormed them sunday with ivemec. as I do every month. They were born in nov. They are eating , produsers pride medicated feed. and they have acsess to hay ,grass and minerals. ( and of coarse water ).

    Its like this last month she has ben getting skinny and looking really bad. Thats why I am really concerned about there health.
     
  13. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    Ok-I understand better- that sounds like you are getting to the root of the problem- good luck.

    The reason I'm so concerned about the medicated feed and seperate cocci treatment is that a friend of mine did that with one of her young bucks and he came down with goat polio.
     
  14. badnewsboers

    badnewsboers New Member

    429
    May 9, 2008
    Newport, NC
    So you worm every month with ivomec? Do they actually have worms each time you worm them? If not all you're doing is building up the worms' resistance. Especially since you aren't rotating wormers.

    I like to do the Famancha method for checking worms. You check the lower eyelids to see if the goat is anemic. Only then do you worm.
     
  15. all1965

    all1965 New Member

    381
    Oct 6, 2007
    AR
    We use Sul-Q-Nox as our cocci medicine. When we see signs of runny poo we get a sample and do our own testing.
    If they have cocci, Sul-Q-Nox is administered at 1.5 cc per 50 lbs.
    We usually add pancake/waffle syrup to it when we give it so it doesn't taste as bad because they really hate the taste.
     
  16. badnewsboers

    badnewsboers New Member

    429
    May 9, 2008
    Newport, NC
    Also its hard to judge condition with picture from above like that, but from what I can see they don't look that bad. The boy looks like he hasn't lost his undercoat yet. The doe's coat is still within the realm of normalcy for Boers. Some just have more rugged looking coats. Of course it might just appear that way in the picture and be rather rough to the touch.
     
  17. lacy_94

    lacy_94 New Member

    192
    Oct 6, 2007
    North Fla
    omg !! I Dint realize that that they dint need to be wormed monthly. gosh I think they are imune to the ivemec because my grown goats have pale eye lids and I thing they may have worms.. so do I swich wormers now ?
     
  18. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    try to get a fecal on one or more of them to pin point what kind of worms you are dealing with and then worm them with a wormer that will be effective against such worms
     
  19. lacy_94

    lacy_94 New Member

    192
    Oct 6, 2007
    North Fla
    I will try to find out next time mom works. If she works this sat/ sun then maby we can take her back and redo the fecal. The first time , we took the poop in the fecal had alot of hay debris...

    One prob may be that we have a grass/browse pen and a dirt pen. We started roatating them more often to help with nutrients. The goats that are in the dirt pen get hay and grain. The grassy pen get grain 1 a day. Plus free choice minerals.

    I also read on here that walking the goats up hill builds muscle so i will try that with the healthy buck.