New Buckling Going Downhill Fast: Advice??

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by SKlutra, Apr 10, 2020.

  1. SKlutra

    SKlutra New Member

    2
    Apr 10, 2020
    GA
    Hey all! Newbie goat owner here, and looking for a bit of advice:

    I'm a bit long-winded, so please bear with me:

    I just adopted two boys last Thursday, they were auction babies so I have very little background on them, but both look to be around 4-5 months imo. They were weaned when I got them. One came wethered, the other is intact. I knew I'd run the risk of taking on a project with auction goats, and that turned out to be the case:

    First few days were fantastic, goats seemed happy and healthy, other than being a little thin and some bad hoof care. Cleaned up the hooves, gave CD/T vax, held off on worming since I wasn't seeingany other signs and FAMACHAs looked good, which I realize now may have been a bad call.

    Two days ago I noticed the buckling had some "loose" stool: fairly solid but not pelleted, like a dog turd. I had just moved their grazing area (we have a portable enclosure for them, and they have a pen that they go into at night. Pen is dirt/browse, pastures are a mixture of grass and browse.) to a spot that had a lot of lush green grass, and it had been a bit drizzly, and this lil guy loves his grass so I just chocked the stool up to the weather/grazing in addition to the feed changes they probably had from whatever they were getting fed before I had them. Next day, I noticed that the stool had progressed to a pudding consistency. FAMACHA still good, rumen motility still good, appetite and attitude still good, and his hair coat was actually improving (not that it was bad before, but I swear he gets softer by the day). Took them off of pasture early and cut their pellet portion, so they were in the pen with only leafy browse and grass hay/alfalfa to eat. Cleaned his backside so I'd know if the diarrhea recurred. As always, they have free access to water and loose mineral. Temp normal.

    This AM, dad lets me know that the buckling was a bit lethargic, thought it might be due to the cold, and that he had had more pudding stool. I went out to check, he came up to me and was acting normal, bleating for food and attention. Brown pudding stool on his butt, and FAMACHA seemed lower than normal, but not bad: it had been a 1, now it was a 2. I went ahead and wormed with safe guard, I had some handy and Ivermectin is hard to find these days. By afternoon he was acting kinda "down", still walking around and eating but just not as energetically as normal. FAMACHA actually looked better (Yes, I know that's not how anemia normally works, I'm just telling y'all what I saw) Rumen motility still up, etc. Buy then I started second guessing myself, wondering if I should treat for coccidia instead. Obviously a fecal would be the ideal next step but I'm having trouble finding someone to treat goats over the weekend during a pandemic, lol. Went ahead and started Corid treatment and offered some electrolytes. At this point buck is feeling really down, dribbling brown pudding stool, showing no interest in food, and not begging for attention like usual. What's scaring me is that his rumen motility seems to have dropped, he went from having good strong contractions to having one weak one when I checked with stethoscope/palpation. No fever; temp seems stable around 102.7, no signs of anemia, no obvious dehydration. His buddy is showing no questionable symptoms whatsoever.

    Is there anything more I can do? I feel like I've thrown a lot at him already, but at the same time I am really worried. I have dark beer and yogurt onhand for the rumen issues but I also don't want to overwhelm his system.

    Thank you in advance!
     
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  2. happybleats

    happybleats Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    A fecal would be ideal to see if parasites were addressed. Safeguard is not a great wormer for most big name parasites. I would pick up either valbazen or cydectin sheep drench. Probiotics and dark beer to kick start his rumen would be a good idea and b complex shot to support him.
    If the other has not been treated I would definitely do him as well. The stress of sale barn, being sold, moving to a new home, even a loving one as yours obviously is..can indeed cause worm bloom.

    Best wishes
     
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  3. SalteyLove

    SalteyLove Well-Known Member

    Jun 18, 2011
    New England
    If it was the liquid safeguard, be sure you dosed at 1mL per 5lbs. Do you have an exact weight on him? Can you pick him up & stand on a bathroom scale?

    I think Corid treatment was a good choice.
    Perhaps you can tempt him to eat some leafy branches or pine boughs cut? That may help his rumen.
     
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  4. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    I definitely think a fecal should be done ASAP. Good call on treating with CoRid, but with him being so sick, I feel he needs to have B-Complex and it has thiamine in it which in turn if you use CoRid and Thiamine it could hinder the effect of the CoRid. I try not to use CoRid on really sick animals, but my main treatment is another product, so anyone that has had more experience and success with CoRid in very sick animals can definitely chime in.

    I agree, Safeguard is definitely not the best dewormer, there is a lot of resistance to Safeguard and Ivermectin as well. Honestly, I think Valbazen is probably a much better choice, but won't know until you have a fecal done as your treating worms blind (which I know is no fun).

    When I have a sick goat that is scouring -
    B-Complex - for rumen health
    Probiotics - rumen health
    Spectogard - helps stop the scouring, and also aids in treating Bacterial infections which can happen in these situations. Spectogard is labeled for pigs - great stuff.
     
  5. 21goaties

    21goaties Well-Known Member

    Mar 13, 2018
    Southern GA
    :up:

    Here is my advice:

     
  6. lada823

    lada823 Active Member

    209
    Apr 1, 2018
    Ohio
    I use Corid. You will want to do a b-complex after you are done with the corid protocol, not before. I would do probiotics and dark beer both if you are suspecting rumen issues. And I would go with Cydectin for deworming. In our area you may as well give m&ms as give safeguard. Hay and browse only, no grain. Maybe antibiotics in case you are dealing with some shipping fever? Does he have a runny nose at all? Shipping fever can look like just a snotty nose and diarrhea with no actual fever.
     
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  7. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    I only use corrid on a healthy goat. Any goat that is having loose stool is not healthy. I agree with Hoosier Shadow. Stop the pudding stool with spectro guard. Watch goat till stool returns to normal. Usually 2 days. Then use the b complex & probiotics. Once thats done a few days, he is eating, no runs. Take a fecal and then worm for the correct parasite.
     
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  8. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    All, really good advice.
     
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  9. Tanya

    Tanya Well-Known Member

    :update: how is the little one doing????
     
  10. SKlutra

    SKlutra New Member

    2
    Apr 10, 2020
    GA
    I am happy to report that little buckling is much better! Last night he had perked up a bit, was nibbling on some browse. I offered him some yogurt and he LOVED IT.

    This AM he was bright and alert, bleating like normal :rolleyes:. Temp still good (102.5). FAMACHA looked good, and rumen motility sounded/felt much stronger than last night!! Gave electrolytes (which he had now decided taste great after my having to fight to even get a few cc's down him yesterday... go figure). Continuied corrid and rewormed. Seemed a little lethargic towards midday but electrolytes perked him back up and he's been acting much better since. He's been tearing into his hay and cut browse! He's not 100% but I am hoping we are on the right track. Stool is still "pudding" consistency, but more "controlled" than it was last night, if that makes sense? Think defined bowel movements vs. constant dribbling. Noticed white mucus in the stool, which can be associated with coccidia, correct?

    Also, how frequently can I offer the yogurt? He really loves it and I'd like to give his rumen that boost right now, but I also know high-fat foods aren't always great for ruminants. If its alright for him, I'm sure he'd love it as a treat even when he's feeling better! lol

    Thank you all for the great advice! I agree that safeguard is not the best dewormer, I had just wanted to get something in him and I figured it "couldn't hurt, may help" since I know fenbendazole to be a pretty safe drug for little critters. And fecal is absolutley the next step, like I said it's just been a bit easier said than done. To answer SalteyLove, definitely got an exact weight on him prior to corid! And glad I did, he's much lighter than I would have guessed. And to Lada's question- no runny nose or any sign of congestion. Lungs also sound clear.

    As of right now he is laying by the hay feeder chewing cud.... fingers crossed! Thank you all so much!
     
  11. happybleats

    happybleats Well-Known Member

    Sep 12, 2010
    Gustine Texas
    Wonderful news!!! Good job!
     
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  12. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Very good work, congrats. :)
     
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  13. Cat Mom

    Cat Mom New Member

    3
    Sep 4, 2020
    Iowa
    So glad your little guy is doing better. Lots of good advice and shows I need to do more reading. So much to learn.
     
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  14. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  15. Cat Mom

    Cat Mom New Member

    3
    Sep 4, 2020
    Iowa
    Thank you, so glad I found this as I have so many questions !
     
  16. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California