New Member here, Kidding questions

Discussion in 'Kidding Koral' started by luvs2ride1979, Jan 28, 2010.

  1. luvs2ride1979

    luvs2ride1979 New Member

    20
    Jan 28, 2010
    Roland, Arkansas
    So, I was given three goats, which ended up being pregnant... The lady I got them from said they were due late February, but the first one kidded yesterday! I was caught very unprepared... Thankfully everything went fine, it seems. However, the doe has not let the new kid nurse unassisted. I have to hold her and she still tries to kick at it. The kid will nurse for just a minute, and then he gets frustrated and quits. I checked to make sure her teats here clear. I can get milk out of both fine. The kid has a good sucking reflex (checked with my finger).

    What should I do? Just keep trying?

    I'm going to buy some bottles and milk today, to make sure he's getting enough food while they both figure things out. I read on one web site that goat milk replacer was bad? They suggested feeding whole cows milk from the store with corn syrup added. That doesn't sound right to me... :shrug:

    Also, we're expecting a cold snap of weather in the next few days (snow & sleet). They have a 3-sided shelter (no barn) and I'm off to buy a dog house for the baby today. Should I buy a dog coat? More than one dog house? I have three does all living together (no way to separate at the moment). One doe has gotten "rude" toward the baby. She looks like she's about to kid herself soon.

    Oh, also. Since this kidding took me by surprise, I did not vaccinate in time. Can I vaccinate mom now? What is the best thing to deworm with the day after kidding? I have goat dewormer (pelletized stuff), but I also have horses so I have paste Ivermectin. Would the Ivermectin be better?

    These are Alpine goats, their first babies. They're all just past their first birthdays.

    THANKS!!
     
  2. luvs2ride1979

    luvs2ride1979 New Member

    20
    Jan 28, 2010
    Roland, Arkansas
    I forgot to mention, the doe did clean the kid up and seems to "like" him. She wants him near her and still cleans him. She just doesn't want him near her udder...
     

  3. myfainters

    myfainters New Member

    Oct 29, 2009
    Lancaster, CA
    Keep holding the mom whil the baby nurses... if you do bottle feed use moms milk. Otherwise, baby will stop smelling like mom and then she will never accept her. This happens sometimes with First fresheners (first ime mommies)

    I would get a dog house for EACH doe and kids... if possible. Goats can be bullies and you don't want a baby left out in the cold because it's mom was the submissive one.

    For worming.. I'd use the paste. :- ) 1cc per 20 lbs. Just vaccinate the kids at 4 and 6 weeks of age... they'll be fine. If you are disbudding then do the first dose the day you disbud. the 2nd 2 weeks later.

    Congrats on the new kid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Sorry about all of my missed letters!!! My son spilled on my computer... so I have to really punch some of the keys to get them to work!!! <sigh>
     
  4. AngelGoats

    AngelGoats New Member

    88
    Jan 27, 2010
    Ok, question! My babies were disbudded, by the breeder, but she never said anything about givin them dewormer! So they are 2 weeks and 3 weeks old. When should I deworm them?
     
  5. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    only as needed

    have a fecal done before worming :thumb:
     
  6. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    This is common when a doe's udder is tight and sore.

    Is her udder very full?

    As to vaccinating mom - has she already had her CD/T before? if not she will need a booster 3 weeks later.

    What is your setup like? do you have a common shelter already for everyone?
     
  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    First off welcome....happy you are here.. :welcome:

    Put them in a bonding pen.....until she feeds the baby herself.... in the mean time you will have to assist the feedings....teach her to be ...momma... she will ...catch on.....eventually.... normal bonding time is... 3 days.... some take longer...depending on the situation...

    first freshener(First timer) she has to be taught how to be a momma...

    Also... she may be very uncomfortable and sore...because her teats and udder are tight.... milking out some....will relieve pressure... and may help her to allowing the kid to nurse.... this is when you try to get the kid to feed...she will be less likely... to push him away.... Also... What you milk out... you can feed back to the kid....


    Has the kid ate a good amount of colostrum? Make sure he gets it....even if you have to milk some from mom... and feed in a syringe or bottle....no needle of course....very slowly... feed it... at the back corner of the mouth.... I would give him momma's milk...... instead of fake milk..... with time things will be OK...

    She is acting like she accepts him...licking is a strong indication....I think... it has to do with mom being sore....and Yes keep trying.... it will happen... Also being a new mom....is another reason...she is unsure what to do....

    Yes... buy a coat...if you have electricity in the shelter....a heat lamp will help while they get things right.....

    Very Important ...Bonding time ..for First timers
    The doe needs to bond with the baby.... it is harder for her to bond... with others interfering..... it is crucial... that they have there own space.... even if ....you have to make it ...with pallets or hog panel..... inside the building.... make it big enough... for them to move around and where mom has enough room to lay down and have some room to spare.....

    Each doe will have to have there own space or the baby will get hurt or killed....sounds like the bully wants her own space to ...the baby may be trying to suckle from the mean doe..... She is just telling him... I am not your mom ...get away...some does can be very rough..... be careful...

    You can vaccinate the doe ...but it won't do the baby any good....
     
  8. Di

    Di Crazy Goat Lady

    Jan 29, 2008
    central PA
    Ok, AngelGoats, at this young age, you might want to get a fecal test done at the vet, so you know if and what kind of parasites your kids may have. Then you can dose accordingly. You'll be able to develop your own de-worming routine as you gain more experience. Right now you should be watching for signs of cocci, if your kids look "ill", standing off by themselves, hunched back, head down, they just look sick, then they get the "runs". If you see this, get them treated ASAP (cocci overload can kill them pretty fast, watch any adults too, I almost lost Princess to cocci last spring)! I use Di-Methox, but I have Baycox on order. Go to this website http://www.fiascofarm.com, there is alot of information, then if you still have questions, the ladies here can explain further. Good luck!
     
  9. luvs2ride1979

    luvs2ride1979 New Member

    20
    Jan 28, 2010
    Roland, Arkansas
    Yes, her udder is VERY full! I was thinking of milking her some so I can bottle feed if necessary.

    She had her CD/T before we got her, sometime last year. I have not vaccinated her since.

    They have a common shelter. It's a shelter logic from tractor supply.
    http://www.tractorsupply.com/lawn-garde ... ed-1110696
    We have it under an 18x21 carport shelter (roof only) that we used for the horses. Inside their shelter is around bale of hay. I guess I should move that out to make room for everyone :wink:.

    They're in a pasture, about 0.7 acres, with a stream that runs through it. We've made it "goat proof" for the adults, though now that babies are comming we'll need to look at it again. It's fenced with 4-rail wood with a cross rail that the adults cannot get through or under. One one side they can, so we put up "garden wire" (rabbit fence) and that fixed it. One side is "hog panel" wire fencing, which the goats can get their heads through, but not their bodies. The babies will likely be able ot get through that, so we'll probably replace that will regular wire fense (2x3" openings). I'm also going to put out a short water tub so baby has access to water that he can't fall in to, lol.
     
  10. Di

    Di Crazy Goat Lady

    Jan 29, 2008
    central PA
    Is the kid nursing at all? You said he nurses for a minute...kids nurse very quickly...but often...so to a newbie (I was one once too) it may seem like they aren't getting much, when they are. Check his tummy, if he's nursing it'll be round and he'll be happy and active. If he's really not getting any he'll look unhappy and "skinny", you'll have to either hold the doe while he nurses or you'll have to bottle feed.
     
  11. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    milk mom so that her udder isnt as full -- save this milk as it is part colostrum right now you dont want to drink it but you can feed it to the baby if for some reason she rejects him fully.

    Yup little nurses here and there is common for young kids.

    But if her udder is full the nursing is going to hurt her and she will kick him off due to the pain.
     
  12. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    She will except the kid nursing on her ...if she is relieved... :wink:

    If it has been since last year that she had her shot then giving her another one won't hurt.... it won't benefit the kid but she is due for one herself...

    Giving them there bonding pens... it is so important for first time momma's....and will help out alot....

    It is good... that you are going to fix it... where the babies are not going to be able to get to the stream.... good thinking.... :thumbup:
     
  13. luvs2ride1979

    luvs2ride1979 New Member

    20
    Jan 28, 2010
    Roland, Arkansas
    Okay, mom and baby are in the shelter together, with a panel gate across the front. I did milk her and she accepted milking fine. I bottle fed the baby with her right there and she cleaned and "doted" on him while he was eating. He wants to just eat 1 oz at a time. I was only able to get him to eat about 5 oz total. Is that enough? Mom still didn't want him nursing, but I need to milk her some more. She's still pretty tight.

    Baby's first pooh was pretty runny. Is that normal? I really need to buy a goat book, lol.

    One more thing. While I was in there I noticed some discharge coming from her, almost like she's going to kid again, but I swear I can't feel anything left in here, from the outside or the inside (I only probed inside with a couple of fingers). Could it be some afterbirth left? It's a bit red tinged, but not "bloody". My vet is good with goats, so I can call him out, but it's a $45 farm call fee just to get him out there. If it's normal I won't call him out. I can take a picture if that would help.
     
  14. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    the red tings stuff will happen off and on for like 2 weeks - this is normal

    yellow soft stools are normal for young kids
     
  15. luvs2ride1979

    luvs2ride1979 New Member

    20
    Jan 28, 2010
    Roland, Arkansas
    Thanks everyone! Baby showed me what he could do tonight, and the doe stood still like a good girl. I milked her a little more just in case I needed another bottle, but I think they're good now. One of the other does I have looks like she'll be ready to go in the next day or two. I hope she waits until after this cold snap of weather... Can I vaccinate the two that are almost due, or is it too close to kidding?
     
  16. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    you can vaccinate them but if they kid in the next week the vaccine wont get to the babies via the milk in time -- but its ok, you just vaccinate them they will be fine