new possible buckling. need advice.

Discussion in 'Dairy Diaries' started by farmergal, Mar 24, 2010.

  1. farmergal

    farmergal New Member

    519
    Jun 19, 2009
    Northern California
    So... I have really fallen in love with Pholia Farm goats. I love that they are a dairy and as so they really emphasize the utility of Nigis, but also show... so also care about conformation. And I am thinking that maybe, just maybe, I could squeeze a new buckling into my goat budget so that any doe kids I keep this year from my 1 buck could be bred to the new buckling, instead of having to do a driveway with them with somebody else's buck.

    Anyway, if you could put a reservation on any of these bucklings, which would you pick, based on the pics of mama (and dad's pedigree)?

    http://pholiafarm.com/kiddingschedule.htm

    I was specifically looking at bucklings out of Puzzle, Deana, or Angelica. The breeder said that Angelica has a beautiful udder, but her feet aren't great. Sadly their top milking doe Harriet broke her knee and so can't carry the weight of kids anymore... but the buckling they kept out of her is Midas Touch, who's bred to Angelica. Also, the breeder said that Deana is her best doe hands down... but that buckling is a pretty penny! And since I'm really interested in milk production, a smaller doe isn't necessarily the best for that. Thoughts?
     
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Puzzle is over height -- not a doe you want to get a buck out of in my opinion - but the better of the does you liked

    Even though she has all those wins I dont really like Deana -- nothing about her udder strikes me - it has hardly any capacity in that picture and her body structure is very chunky - it is long and she does look put together dont get me wrong but I am not wowed by her. If I am going to pay 550.00 for a buck kid it better be wow worthy.

    Angelica is nice but again I am not wowed by her udder - for the price its just not what I would expect to see.

    Now Riddle -- really like that doe. I would be more interested in a buck kid from her then from any of her other does. Udder sits high and tight, nice capacity, medial is strong and teats dont point to far out with good dilination between them and the udder. Much more worthy of the 500.00 price tag in my opinion.
     

  3. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    oh I also like her doe Edith -- but she isnt showing pricing for bucks so maybe not selling bucks off her? which doesnt make sense because she had a beautiful FF udder - nice and wide attachments, nicely socked up in the escutcheon


    oh and I dont go by lines -- I dont care who the great great grandsire or dam was -- I go by the individual goats themselves.
     
  4. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
  5. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    deana hands down.. everything about that doe screams awesome. Puzzle is too tall and i don't like angelica at all
     
  6. farmergal

    farmergal New Member

    519
    Jun 19, 2009
    Northern California
    Thanks so much for the advice Stacey. I agree about Edith... I had thought she was really pretty and wasn't sure why no bucks were listed. And I am also really glad to hear you say that about Deana. I thought the same thing actually, but then figured I must just be a dumb newbie :oops: because the breeder thought so highly of her. But she looked kind of stocky to me, and with kind of a so-so udder... not as high as I'd like.

    :shrug: It's so hard to tell from pictures, too. But I will keep looking and def check out Poppy Patch... tho part of the reason Pholia would work is b/c I have an aunt driving down from Oregon for my wedding and it would be on the way :wink:

    Hm, not sure how I left Riddle out of the list... I meant to put her in too! lol
     
  7. farmergal

    farmergal New Member

    519
    Jun 19, 2009
    Northern California
    SDK, so what is it about deana that I am missing? obviously her record is pretty impressive but I dunno, she didn't shout out to me.
     
  8. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    deana IMO is a gorgeous animal, i can't see how poeple don't like her ( please feel free to add stuff)

    She's appraised at 90, which is awesome for a nigerian, she's got style, length, body capacity for days!, great feet and legs, topline is great, very level, I'd like it a bit more uphill, but can't be too picky,

    Her udder is IMO really nice. She'd got a great foreudder ( look at the extension) its really well attached, the MSL is nice, i'd like to see bigger teats on her, but they dont point east and west, and she milks a pretty good amount for such a small girl.

    I would like more depth of body by the front legs, a little more brisket extension, and some more angulation to the legs.. but she is a reallynice animal
     
  9. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    and don't discredit does that are smaller, she milked a solid 670 as a FF, that's pretty good IMO for a doe that small, and we don't know what her udder looks like milked out either, since most does with"great capacity" generally have big beefy ugly udders when milked out
     
  10. ProctorHillFarm

    ProctorHillFarm New Member

    Yes SDK I couldnt agree with you more!

    Just take a look at her record too- she is A GCH already by her 4th freshening and also
    "3x Sr. Grand, 6x BOB, 5x Best Udder Breed, 2x Best Udder in Show, Appraised 91"

    Hands down she would be my pick out of the ones listed!
     
  11. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    if her udder was worth all that awards then why do they have an awful picture of it on the web?
     
  12. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    My favorite of Pholia Farm animals is Harriet but Deana is the next choice. I like Angelica's udder - long, milk-able teats!

    One thing that concerns me is the lack of consistency in some of the does there. But I love that they are a dairy and Gianaclis is sooo sweet and helpful. They definitely have some nice animals there. Hope it works out for you to get one!
     
  13. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    Just a quick note that there is a MUCH better photo of Deana on their home page, at Nationals. Not a rear udder photo but a very nice one - she is a pretty gorgeous doe! I'd look at her daughter's (or ask if they are not up yet) udders/how they turned out and allow that to influence decision too. . .
     
  14. farmergal

    farmergal New Member

    519
    Jun 19, 2009
    Northern California
    The other photos of Deana I think are better. With the angle of the main photo to me just looks kind of chunky and stocky... and yeah, 91 is a pretty amazing linear appraisal score.

    Capriola, what do you mean by the does aren't very consistent? :chin: that could be worrisome... (Btw Harriet is my fave too, I am so bummed she won't be able to be bred again.)

    Any advice on Riddle v. Deana? Not sure if I can afford a Deana buckling ($700, yipes!!). Riddle is the dam of Harriet, btw.
     
  15. ProctorHillFarm

    ProctorHillFarm New Member

    Wow Stacey- I dont think thats a very nice thing to say- I dont see anything wrong with the UDDER picture itself. Perfect teat placement and udder floor and looks to be well attached. Maybe her side shot is off angled a little bit to make her look slightly short bodied but I wouldnt go as far as to say they are AWFUL pictures.

    Anyway-
    Between Riddle and Deana?

    I like Deana more- take a look at Riddle's LA scores- they have consistently gone DOWN with each freshening in 2005 she got and 85 and by 2007 she was down to 82 with only a + for her mammary. This leads me to believe she is not "holding up" with subsequent freshenings.

    You could go with Deana's full sister, Delight? She is bred to Deana's son- for a linebreeding on those lines
    I really like her udder floor, teat placement, and plumb teats- she also appraised at 89 which is very good! She's got some credentials behind her too.
    " Delite is our 2nd best milking doe and also a contender in the show ring. 2x 2008 Sr. Grand, BOB, 4x Res. Sr. Grand"

    Those bucks are a little less ($550)
     
  16. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    delight is another nice doe that just can't get recognition in the showring.

    I've watched riddle grow from afar, seems to me like every freshening her scores go down, and if you look her rear udder is pretty low, there's kind of a shelf.

    i say delight or deana
     
  17. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Deana looks like she was a bit over conditioned in the picture. With a bit less weight on her she would probably look a lot nicer. I'd like to see a bit longer, more refined and feminine neck. Nice tight elbows. Very level topline with a nice level rump.

    I don't like that rear shot of her udder at all. Makes it look too "long" like it could swing in the breeze, but the side shot makes it look better. I'd like to see more defined lateral attachments and I would like to see it socked up more into her escutcheon. At least it's hard to see if it is with the picture. Her fore udder looks very nice.

    I think the Price of the Buck is way too high, IMO.
     
  18. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I didnt put awful in caps and I stand by what I said -- if you are going to ask for 700.00 for a buck kid you better have a beautiful picture to go with the price tag. The udder picture makes her look terrible. I'm sorry its my opinion and I stand by it.
     
  19. SDK

    SDK New Member

    Jun 26, 2008
    Yucaipa ca
    just saying if your going to pay 700 for a buck, its best to check it out in person, or GET NEW PICS. I do agree its Stacey's opinion, and even though we disagree, its her opinion.
     
  20. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    very good point sarah -- hopefully the breeder has better pictures to provide that can prove she is worth the 700.00 for a buckling. If not well I would go with a differnet doe for a buck kid -- its to risky to me to pay that much.

    I believe in paying the right price for a goat - proven or not.