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I am thinking about showing nigerians. i'm a little confused. i attended an ADGA show and came away shaking my head. i was under the impression that nigerians are supposed to be dairy like (not pygmy) yet several classes (not all) were won by short obese goats that look like spotted pygmys, while the dairy does that looked like they worked for living were further down the line. then when the other breeds were shown the really nice dairy goats won. this is not the first show i've seen this, and i just need some feedback. I have been a dairy cattle judge for many years and thought dairy goats (all breeds) were supposed to be judged like dairy cows with 2 teats. Am i wrong?:eek:
 

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It is my understanding that they want them looking more dairy. Is it the same judge? Some judges have their own opinions.
 

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rdmtnfarms
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I am interested to hear about this as well. I am having the same question. I was thinking maybe they were picking the "fatter" ones because of depth? The ones with more depth do look pigmy-like because they have this large barrel and teeny legs. I'm new so not an expert at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It was the same judge for the whole show. Doesnt the score card say that udder and dairy character are more important than body capacity? Well I guess I will show the more dairy like goats that are better milkers and hope for the best.
 

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rdmtnfarms
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Well good luck. I guess how it works is you will have success with some judges and none with others. I had one doe kid take first in one class and last in the other. Go figure. Two different judges.
 

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Judges are all different. Some judges raise other types of goats or they like the older style milk goats. Some like the smaller ones. We have a goat that won when she was 2 1/2 months old. Showed her in April at the county fair and was placing in the back. Showed her 2 weeks ago at the ADGA show and took Res Grand with one Judge and 3rd with the other. All different Judges.
 

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I have seen the same thing. I went to a AGS/NDGA show a couple months back, First show I watched. The placings were just all over the place. One class winner was a nice lengthy dairy type. Next winner was a short fat looking Nigerian. when there were long, dairy type does in the class that didn't place. The judge just didn't seem to know what he liked. It was crazy. I swear some of the Nigerian class winners looked more like pygmy goats than the pygmy goats I have at home!
 

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It really depends on the judge. It's not the way I think it should be. Most times the fat; sometimes obese goats take grand. I feel dairy goats should be elegant & dairy. Not short,stubby with their stomachs almost touching the ground. I have started off breeding elegant & dairy and I will continue to do so.

A lot of people breed for more the pygmy look because they know it is what has been winning in the ring.
I personally think people don't have the impression that they should of Nigerians.
 

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7 does - 2 bucks - 1 wether
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I like my does a little on the chubby side, but that's my preference. Different judges have different tastes.
 

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For this very reason, I sold my AGS registered Nigerian Dwarf herd. Had people saying my goats were ugly and didn't look good. Most of mine were long leg and elegant and long body. Some reminded me of deer. Dainty. Had problems selling them. I just had it. Now they are gone. I kept two for dairy personal use. I just got a email that a doeling born from a buck and doe I sold last year won junior grand champion. Go figure.
Went to a show recently. I raise fainting goats now. They had a dairy goat judge and a meat goat judge. Showing same meat goats for both shows. :shrug: All placed different. All depends on the judge.
 

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Had the same thing happen in my first show today! For the dairy class I was in, I was grand champ. In the overall where all the grand and reserve champs compete, I didn't place, and this super fat doe got grand champ! My current buck is more of the old style, and the doe that I took today is the slimmer, longer body. I think they will have good kids in a happy medium. I just don't think it's fair.
 

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No, it's not fair ... I do like stocky looking goats, but that's because they have a hardy feel to them. I have a mix, and I enjoy the variety. Everyone's beautiful in their own way. I have some stocky, some slim, some perfectly in-between.
 

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It seems to me that what wins in the show pen in the "real" dairy breeds, should absolutely win in the Nigerian. The point is to be a perfect replica of a full sized dairy goat, correct? I never see chunky, bloated looking does win in the standard breeds. It is always long, sharp, level, dairy does that are winning. I think the more pygmy looking, hefty Nigerians who win do it because they have huge udders. Some judges don't seem to look at anything else. I've seen some of those does, which I call "mini cows", walk in with legs so posty they look like 2X4s, but they win because their udders look like they are equal to 1/3 of the size of the entire goat...where-as the really dairy does may have better attachements, shape, etc. but don't have the massive capacity. I think its inconsistency...

It is exactly like showing Quarter Horses in halter. It seems to be gettign a bit better, but they walk in with horses with double muscle...Arnold Schwarzennegar horses...with legs so posty that if you even tried to ride them the legs would snap. Absolutely the opposite end of athletic, yet all the juddges see is that massive muscle and BAM, first place...Some judges harp on ONE thing and are blind to the entire picture. I think it may be one reason why Nigerians can have a bad rep amongst breeders of standard goats. You really just have to go to as many shows as possible. Width is important, so is body depth...but dairyness, length, level-ness, angularity, etc. is what makes a diary goat a DAIRY goat. You just have to stick to your guns..breed and select what you KNOW is correct for a dairy goat and go to as many shows as you can...if we want to keep moving the breed forward so that one day most of the large breed dairies will actually consider our breed a "true" dairy breed..we just have to keep striving.

Nigerians are still considered heritage as far as I know, so its still in its development stage. People concerned with careful breeding are the people who are going to pave the way for the consistency and quality of the breed in the future. For me, I look at winning LARGE breeds, and emulate that. I absolutely do not emulate champion Nigerians unless I can compare them to a full sized, champion, dairy goat and make many positive correlations. Those breeds are more established and consistent and my goal is to bring my Nigerians closer to that standard and to ignore the conflicting winners who have the body/udder capacity and little else.
 

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Firelight, Really liked what you had to say. I had a friend come back from a goat show this weekend. These were not nigerians. They were a different breed. Goats looked like steroids were pumped into them. I saw the pictures on the show's website. Of course, these abnormal looking goats won. The sight made her feel unwelcomed with her little goats. But we both agreed that we are sticking to what the breed is suppose to look like.
 

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Yup, I'm sticking what I believe, and what I think the majority of Nigerian breeders believe what they should look like. Dairy. Not pumpkins with stubby legs!
 

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Sorry, I know this is an old thread.. But just found it...
I had this happen this year too... But it wasn't just the Nigerians... The standards too... The chubby goats were placing higher, and then the judge was saying they were more dairy... I don't know.. But, that's not dairy character!
My Nigerians took last and second to last at that show... My girls aren't chubby.. They milk a lot of weight off so I have to try and work to get weight on them that early in their lactation... But, the next show we went to, one doe took 1st and 2nd! (Only brought one milker and it was a two ring)
So it all depends on the judge.. I honestly didn't like the judge at the first show.. And it's not because of my Placings... (My juniors did pretty good, better then our second show) I just didn't like his style I guess...

Ok sorry for my rant :/

Enchantedgoats.. Did this happen to be the show in New Boston NH on 6-1-13?
 

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Skyla, the same thing happens down here.

At my county fair, not ADGA but still..... We have a meat goat judge that judges every class. Even dairy. .....
So the one with the worst attachments but biggest udder wins..... Even when they're like 100 lbs! (Nigerian)
 

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It really stinks... But you know what judges you want to show under and which ones you don't... As of right now, I'm not a fan of that judge, know I won't win unless I have a fat yearling (which dose happen once in a while lol!) but, it still gives me, my sisters, and our goats experience. It i had to travel a few hours and he was the judge, I would probably just not go... But there are other judges I would travel hours to show under lol!
 
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