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Not able to put on weight

6563 Views 78 Replies 18 Participants Last post by  janeen128, 
Dayna
So my saanen Cloud had babies in April (I think it was april!)

Anyway, she put her all into feeding her babies. I chose to not milk her as her condition was poor.

Cloud has never really recovered from milking her kids.

Her body condition I would rate as emaciated. I've done fecals, and tested for cocci.

She is negative (a few worms here or there but not a large load and she's been treated).

Her eye lids are still pale. Her gums area pale. I would consider her emaciated. I am putting off taking her to the vet as we only really have dog and cat vets, so I'm better off doing most stuff myself.

I can draw blood, do you suggest any blood tests?

One thing that is worrying me, is her front knees are very knobby and creaky.

She has free forage, I have tried a variety of things over the last few months. Grain, extra alfalfa, corn, beet pulp, dairy cow grain, etc etc.

She has access to high protein weeds (partrige pea and other legumes) as well as grass, guava, albezia tree (high protein), etc etc.

Now I KNOW dairy goats are slimmer then other types of goats. I will get a photo tomorrow. She is probably 40 pounds under weight. Seriously.

I do not know what to do at this point.

What blood tests should I run that I can send off myself? My vet charges $120 for a CAE test. Yeah, seriously. I asked when my buckling had a cyst in his neck.

My goats are pretty healthy except for the occasional hoof rot. I've ordered the hoof rot vaccine and am almost done building the foot bath thing suggested.

I give vitamens, loose minerals, grain, alfalfa, orchard grass, beet pulp, etc etc.

I'm getting so frustrated! I feel like no matter what I do or how many hours per day I spend caring for goats, it's one thing after another!

Again, I'll get a photo tomorrow. So skinny! I can about wrap my fingers around her spine. :( She eats and poops normal too. Just fyi. lol
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Dayna
This?

http://www.amazon.com/REPLAMIN-GEL-...d=1384876750&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=replenamin

I will see if our local feed store has it, if not I can order it.

I, again, have done fecals. I have done fecals on the same schedule that the eggs hatch. lol She does not have a worm problem. I wish she did, as I could just worm her and fix the problem!

Biotracking will do the CAE test, but where do I send off one for Jhones? And is the CAE test from biotracking accurate? She came originally before I bought her from a local lady, from the big dairy here.

I can do replenamin plus with all the other vitamins listed above and with the redcell?

Oh edited to add, she gets LOTS of green forage daily. There is no way to have her eat less fruit though. She lives in a 3 acre guava orchard. It is not possible to put her somewhere else unless I rehome her.
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Dayna
I'll have to write all this down and see how much I can fit into one or two "sessions" per day, preferably one. Cloud doesn't like very many things these days, she's become quite picky. So I may have to force some of this on her.
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Dayna
You can see how thin she is.

Plant Beak Grass Feather Twig


Plant Goat Grass Fawn Terrestrial animal

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Dayna
Calf manna molds here really fast no matter how I keep it. I cannot put it in freezer as it would be too expensive to freeze it instead of meat. We're talking molds within days.

She drinks fine. Free choice minerals. I do copper bolus. She actually has plenty hair on her tail. She has a crooked tail so it doesn't show up very well. Her coat is finally in good condition. A couple months ago she lost almost her whole coat and looked bald.
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Dayna
Okay, going to the WADDL site.

One big question, if she has one of these diseases what's the protocol? PTS? I'm not getting anymore goats. I might have some more be born here, but as far as goats go, I'm done. They are so difficult to care for here! And so smart and wonderful. It tears my heart to see bad hooves, poor condition, etc. Most of my goats are in GREAT condition. I'll attach a photo of Nacho Junior (female) in a minute so you can see its not the quality of the feed....

So after reading all this.

Daily:
Red Cell (I think she weighs about 150#) so 9cc's a day for 7 days then once a week? I've given red cell before but never that much or for that long.
B Complex daily
Safflower OIL, (can I add that to some BOSS, Barley and pumpkin seed instead of wheat germ and flax. I have no real access to that other than health food store)

I've been wondering about peanut butter. She LOVES peanut butter. I could use that to give her the B Complex every day right? Is that goat safe? I've used it to give stuff before but never daily.

What about molasses water? I did that after she had kids, should I do that again to get her to drink MORE?

Now if I mixed BOSS, Barley, Pumpkin seed together how much of each to how much daily should I give her? Like half cup of each twice a day? I don't usually measure but I just got a day calendar and I'll start freaking measuring or weighing everything everyday I give her.

Also she loves alfalfa cubes (better than the pellets and better than the hay) how many pounds of that per day should she be getting? As of right now, I toss a bunch on the ground and so I don't know how much she's getting.

I can pull her into the back yard on a leash or something once or twice daily to give her the extra stuff.
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Dayna
Here is my feral goatie daughter you can see almost over weight. Same access to food and forage.

Goat Grass Fawn Grazing Groundcover


Vertebrate Plant Goat Mammal Fawn

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Dayna
I have some of this, would this probiotic work?

http://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Now...UTF8&qid=1384891743&sr=8-6&keywords=probiotic
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Dayna
I just looked up the WADDL testing information and it looks like they do a trio test of the exact tests I need run for $22.05 Plus the $10 testing fee?

Caprine/Ovine Biosecurity Screen:
-Small Ruminant Lentivirus (CAE/OPP) (ELISA)
-CL (SHI)
-Johne's (ELISA)
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Dayna
Also if Cloud tests positive for any of these tests can I assume her daughters will as well? One is fabulous, big and healthy, the other one is much less thrifty and is always getting sick and is just a weak goat.
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Dayna
ksalvagno said:
The wheat germ and flax is fine. You can skip the safflower oil.
Click to expand...
I don't really have access to wheat germ and flax. I do have access to fresh coconut and mac nut oil. Would mac nut oil or mac nut pulp (left overs from making mac nut oil I feed that to my chickens) work?
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Dayna
The lab was very helpful. I will be drawing blood this weekend.

As far as liver fluke is concerned that's a good call. I can try treating with ivomec plus since that seems to be the current treatment.
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Dayna
Well I just looked and valbazen is used to treat liver fluke, and Cloud has been treated with Valbazen previously (three times in a row) so wouldn't Valbazen have treated the liver fluke if she had that?
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Dayna
It's been a few months. I went ahead and just treated the whole herd just now with Valbazen. I'll treat again in 10 days, then another 10 days.

We do have liver fluke here. I've found it in rabbits! Since it's so muddy and wet here I'm going to assume they have liver fluke.

I am however going to test Cloud for those three diseases still. I have a bad feeling about the results and it's better to find out now rather than later. When I grabbed her, her body was so creaky and crunchy...
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Dayna
audrey said:
Her abdomen looks rather, droopy? I wonder if she doestn have something internal like cancer or something. Do you feel any weird masses in there?
Click to expand...
You know, that is one thing I have not even thought to consider. And a good point to bring up.

She has had a droopy belly since I got her, along with a droopy back. Her abdomen is always pretty big and hard so I don't think I'd know if anything felt off.

Something for me to consider if all the tests are negative. If it ends up being something like that, there really is nothing I can do.
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Dayna
She has not. That is not an option.
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Dayna
Good idea, I will order some tonight. LOL My hubby is going to get a surprise of boxes at the post office.
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Dayna
Oh and I don't want to sound like some jerk.

BoSe and other things are not options due to a couple factors.

1. Dog and Cat vet in Hilo. I live in Keaau, major road construction so I'm looking at a 45 minute drive into hilo with a jeep wrangler to see a dog and cat vet that charges $100-$120 for a test like CL/CAE. Imgaine what BoSe costs?

2. Large animal vet in Waimea. Waimea is a 2 hour drive from me. He's great, but gas is $4.00 a gallon and I get 16 miles to the gallon. Expensive vet visit. I can pay to have him come out to me, but the minimum is about $200 not counting any vetting. Just to get him here.

Vetting is only an option on stuff dog/cat vets can diagnose and frankly smaller goats and only if I have no other option. I have to be able to do most stuff on my own or euthanize the animal.
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Dayna
Let me just say that she's not currently losing weight. She actually looks BETTER than she did a few months ago. She's just not gaining.
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Dayna
They just got the sample TODAY. Express mail took 6 days. I'll be getting a refund on that..

Regardless they spun it down to see if it was a good sample still and it was! yay!

So I'll have all my test results by the end of the week. The wait will either begin for more tests or over with knowing.
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