Not sure what to do...with my goats

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by Froggy, Nov 7, 2011.

  1. Froggy

    Froggy New Member

    127
    Feb 26, 2011
    so...it's been at least 6weeks since I posted about having to butcher my wethers, but we've only butchered one and we've got to do 4 more (ourselves) by Dec. :hair:

    But honestly, it's not really that that bugs me. It's the fact that my family just doesn't have the interest I do in these goats. At first, my parents went along with it, but now I'm getting more and more indirect comments about how ''the goats don't give milk, the goat meat is tough, they're just eating a bunch of hay... blah, blah, blah.''
    I know that right now the does aren't milking. And I know we have a bunch of wethers that are eating lots of hay. So I want to butcher the wethers. But 'no, it's not worth it. the meat is bad.' Okay...then I will sell them to the auction (I DON'T want to do this!! :sigh: ). 'No, we can butcher them ourselves.' Make up your mind already!!! :angry:

    (btw I can't sell any for pets/breeding stock because they may have CL)

    I'm not really sure what to do with my goats now... Since no one in my family thinks they're worth keeping.

    Anyone else have this problem?
    Any advice?

    Thanks for letting me vent,

    Froggy
     
  2. Breezy-Trail

    Breezy-Trail Senior Member

    Sep 16, 2011
    Sprakers, New York
    Did you buy the hay?
    If you bought the hay they should not worry about it.

    Also I think there would be ways to make the meat to their liking.
    Maybe putting it in a brine or something.
    The meat shouldn't be tough if they are less than 9 months old.
    But deer as well a goat is naturally somewhat tough...different cooking methods maybe?
     

  3. Find the threads about cooking goat. I find deer tough only when it is overcooked so there must be ways to cook the goat they might like it.
     
  4. goatgirlzCA

    goatgirlzCA Member

    507
    Mar 9, 2011
    Clovis, California
    I recently had the best goat loin - my friend marinated it for two days and then cooked it in a slow cooker all day - it was tender and delicious! Even my husband, who does not like to eat goat, liked it!

    Its worth your time to find some other recipes or ways to cook it and make you family see that it is a worthwhile investment. I have heard it makes good chili, but haven't tried it - and I have heard the sausage is awesome too.
     
  5. Breezy-Trail

    Breezy-Trail Senior Member

    Sep 16, 2011
    Sprakers, New York
    my dads favorite is curry goat...He just can't wait. He keeps asking when they will be ready to butcher.
    Maybe you could try that.

    It is a somewhat spicy meaty- stew- sauce that gets poured over rice, potatoes, or biscuits.

    If you make something that they will never forget then you got something going with your goats.
     
  6. Goat Song

    Goat Song Senior Member who ain't so Senior

    May 4, 2011
    Oregon
    Been there... It's a hard place to be when family members don't like your goats. I don't have much advice, but if you want to keep the goats as pets, and you're paying for everything, then your family should respect that. My family is only just beginning to respect my goat hobby. It's been a long five year wait for them to finally start!

    My family won't eat goat either, so I don't have any tips on cooking it...
     
  7. KW Farms

    KW Farms Moderator Supporting Member

    Jun 21, 2008
    Wapato, WA
    Can you try and sell them to someone who wants to butcher immediately? Maybe you can start over with clean goats after these ones are gone??
     
  8. Jessaba

    Jessaba Senior Member

    May 13, 2010
    Georgia
    Unfortunately I have been there..not about butchering goats...

    but about certain family members not accepting your goat obsession! My own parents don't speak to me anymore(since June) because they think I'm throwing my life away being a goat/chicken farmer kinda girl instead of working 8-5 everyday. My husband makes enough money and he supports my goat obsession and doesn't care as long as he doesn't have to do too much for him (I have found creative ways for him to be involved with him thinking its HIS idea LOL)

    We are living with his dad as his mom passed from cancer back in May(he said he couldn't live alone) and he is actually helping me with the goat/chicken farm. He buys them, looks online for some good goats for me to look at, paid a few guys so we could fence in 2 acres worth of land for them. Took his shop and made it into a goat barn with stalls. I feel more like family with him than my own family.

    I've learned to wear a thick skin when it comes to my folks, turns out hubby and his family treat me like one of their own!

    Good luck!
     
  9. Itchysmom

    Itchysmom New Member

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington
    You say these goats have CL? So, I thot you shouldn't eat goats with this dease?

    Here we have a pet food bank and she would love the meat from the goats. Is there a place like that in your area? Feed the meat to dogs and cats?
     
  10. lissablack

    lissablack New Member

    Nov 30, 2009
    The meat is fine, just not any abscesses. I would avoid the organs maybe.

    Jan
     
  11. Truth is a Auction could and will take goats for meat. As for CL, here is a great article for you.

    What’s the Lowdown on CL?
    Dave Sparks DVM
    Caseous Lymphadenitis (CL) possible causes more emotional distress among goat breeders than any other goat disease. In fact, it may cause more problems to the breeders than it does for the goats. Many times I have had calls from producers who tearfully told me that their lives as goat producers were over and their farms ruined because of CL, when in fact their problems were relatively minor and manageable. CL is caused by the bacterium Corynebacterium psuedotuberculosis. While this organism is very common and most small ruminant producers will eventually have some issues with it, an understanding of the disease and proper management will allow goat producers to avoid major problems.
    The first step in understanding CL is to realize that all lumps and bumps on goats are not necessarily CL. Goats eat briars and stickers for a living and abscesses from all sources are common. Experienced goat veterinarians can usually, but not always, identify CL lesions from their location and the appearance of the material in the abscess. CL lesions occur when the organism enters through broken or abraded skin. Abscesses can form at the point of entry but it is much more common for them to form in the lymph node that filters the body fluid from that area. Figure 1 shows the location of the most common lymph nodes associated with CL. Figure 2 is a photo of a goat with a lump in the mandibular lymph node that, in fact, was CL. Figure 3 shows a lump on the lower jaw that was in an area not usually associated with CL. This lesion turned out to be a cyst in the salivary gland. The material expressed from lanced CL lesions is about the consistency of toothpaste, pale yellowish green, and has no odor. If it is runny, smells bad, or is any other color it is probably an abscess caused by some other bacterial pathogen. The only way to know for sure is to culture the material to identify the organisms present. Your local veterinarian can help you with this diagnostic test. There are blood serum tests for CL and some producers, especially dairy producers, rely heavily on these serological tests when acquiring breeding stock. The fact is, however, that these tests are not very reliable. They test for the presence of antibodies against one of the toxins produced by the CL causative agent. An active infection will result in a positive test. Past infections, vaccinations, and the presence of antibodies from colostrum in young animals can also result in positive tests. False negatives can occur due to the walling off of the infection in abscesses and the resulting limited exposure of the infection to circulating blood. Severely debilitated animals can also show false negatives.
    When an animal is exposed to the CL material from a ruptured abscess several different things can happen. In some cases the regional lymph node filters out the organism and walls it off until the infection can be dealt with by the body’s defense mechanism or by lancing and disinfecting the lesion. Some animals can have a lesion and then never have another problem. In some cases the infection is not completely contained and spreads down the lymphatic chain where it causes subsequent future lesions in additional lymph nodes. This results in goats that I think of as multiple offenders. These should be culled. In some cases the infection gets into the circulating blood and is carried to internal lymph nodes and organs. This results in goats that are chronic poor performers and eventually results in death. These should also be culled, but this diagnosis is often made on the harvest floor or at necropsy.
    It is also possible but not common for abscesses in the lungs to rupture and spread the organism through an aerosol from infected goats. Although penicillin is effective against the organism, results of antibiotic treatment are poor because very little of the drugs gets into the abscess where the infection is localized. The best way to treat common subcutaneous CL lesions is to lance them before they open on their own, clean out the infective material being very carefully to contain it and dispose of it, and rinse the lesion well inside and out with iodine. An alternative treatment that is popular with some breeders is to inject formalin into the abscess without opening it. This treatment should be avoided in that it is impossible to determine if all the infective organisms are killed and it results in a much higher incidence of recurrence and internal abscesses. When treating CL lesions always wear gloves and protect yourself from the infective material. CL can cause lesions in humans, but it is very rare and usually involves puncturing the person’s skin with an infected knife.
    There is a CL vaccine available in the U.S. but it is only labeled for sheep, not goats. According to Dr. Randall Berrier, staff veterinarian for Colorado Serum Company, when the company was doing the initial work on their CL vaccine they found that it caused unacceptable injection site issues in goats. Dr Berrier also reports that they realize the need exists for a safe goat CL vaccine and have been working towards that goal for at least 8 years. He feels that while they are making progress, they are not yet close to marketing a safe goat CL vaccine. The CL vaccine labeled for use in sheep has been shown to be of some value in managing severely infected herds, but such off label usage should by law be discussed with your local veterinarian. As mentioned above, blood tests for CL cannot differentiate between an active infection and vaccinated animals, so animals that receive the vaccine will always test positive rather they are infected or not. There has also been some thought that the vaccine may actually cause the disease. This is not possible as the vaccine is a killed organism product. According to Dr. Berrier the vaccine, like all vaccines, causes an inflammatory reaction at the injection site. If the live organism is already present in the animal this reaction results in a good environment for the organism which was lurking in the animal’s system to proliferate and cause a local abscess.
    Many producers feel that the only way to deal with CL is to purchase initial breeding stock from a tested negative herd and then maintain a closed herd. While I can’t argue with this theory, it is not practical for everyone. I have mentioned above that the test for CL is sometimes fallible. Closed herds may sound like a good idea but they can bring more problems than they solve. Animals from closed herds cannot develop immunity to the many organisms that they may encounter when they leave their herd and go to a new home. This is something like the child that stays at home until starting school and then is confronted with all the infections that his immune system has never seen, resulting in disease. Also, unless you have several thousand head you will need to find a way to get new genetic material into your “closed herd”. If you bring in new breeding animals then your closed herd is not closed. You can rely on artificial insemination or embryo transfer, but these techniques are beyond the means of most goat producers. A much more sensible approach is vigilant management. Obtain new breeding stock, rather as an initial acquisition or as an infusion of new genetics, from a reliable breeder that you can question. Ask to see health records and obtain references from other customers. If you spend some time you will know who you can trust and who you don’t feel comfortable with. Never purchase breeding stock from your local sale barn. If someone else sold them they likely have a problem. Is it CL, resistant parasites,
    or a lack of respect for fences? When you do experience a suspect CL lesion on a goat make sure you are checking often enough that you see it before it ruptures. Take the goat outside the goat area to lance, express, and disinfect the lesion. Isolate the goat until the lesion heals. Cull repeat offenders and any goat that is not doing well while the others in her contemporary group are in good shape. Remember that animal husbandry is not an exact science and we can no more eliminate all risk of disease in our goats than we can in our selves or our children. A good herdsman is the one that spends enough time with his animals to know what is happening and builds a management plan that minimizes the risk while maximizing the profitability.
     
  12. Tenacross

    Tenacross Well-Known Member

    May 26, 2011
    Enumclaw, Wa.
    I'm lucky that my wife sort of likes the goats. She was even supportive when I spent too much money on brood stock and "goat things". She doesn't do any of the work, but it's nice I don't have to put up with negativity regarding them. My still at home daughter likes the goats fine, but hasn't taken much of a interest. Which is disappointing, but teenagers are teenagers. I really don't care what anybody else thinks.

    If I was in the OPs shoes, I would for sure take the weathers to the sale and use the money for the hay fund.
     
  13. Itchysmom

    Itchysmom New Member

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington
    Thank you JD. Good info there!

    If you think the goats have CL and do not want to test them, then take them to auction. Because times are always hard for me during the winter, I would personaly butcher them and use the meat for dog food. Either way you would get something out of those wethers...money or food.
     
  14. Froggy

    Froggy New Member

    127
    Feb 26, 2011
    sorry I didn't get back sooner...thanks for all the replies :)

    Unfortunately, I do not pay for the hay (not old enough to have a job yet), although I did offer to buy feeds & such in the past, but they always said no. Anyway, because of this I understand that they do not like the cost. Okay, so I've offered selling to the auction, not much interest there ( I haven't pushed it though).

    As for my certainty for the goats being CL+, I don't know for sure, as I've never tested them, but we've had (3) abscesses in the past months:
    Sept.,2010-3 months after we bought a Nigi doe, she developed an abscess--we asked an ''experienced'' goat person about it, they said ''lance it, disinfect it, don't worry''. :doh:
    Unfortunately, the abscess exploded, 4 other goats exposed. This spring, we had 2 goats w/ abscesses, about 4weeks apart... I doubt it was a coincidence. :GAAH:

    Anyway...this is just really frustrating. I'm not sure if I really want to cull them all out, rest the land for 6+months, and then start all over with new stock.


    thanks again,

    Froggy
     
  15. lissablack

    lissablack New Member

    Nov 30, 2009
    Six months might not be long enough to rest the land. No one seems to be sure about how long it takes to get CL out of the soil, but it may be a very long time. I suspect it depends on the climate, and warm wet places probably take longer. But that is speculation. They really don't know. One of my vets thinks it could last 10 years in the soil, I think he is (hopefully) being pessimistic. Most of the things I've heard have been a year at least. Clorox helps, removing the top layer helps, but it doesn't sound like you could get that done. You could wait some amount of time and also vaccinate your new stock when you get it.

    Hope you manage to work it out, that is a very hard thing to have to deal with. I know people have done it successfully, though, and gotten rid of it.

    Jan