Now worms! AAAHHHHH!...UPDATE see my last post, this thread

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by cdtrum, Feb 6, 2009.

  1. cdtrum

    cdtrum New Member

    Aug 25, 2008
    Northern Indiana
    I notice this morning that Jake was not his usual self....couldn't put my finger on it, well this afternoon he has diarrhea.....it is very stinky, runny brown poo.....his color is good, temp is 103 which from what I've read is normal range.....he is picking at his hay but not too interested which is not like him at all.....the only thing I have done different is start a new bag of grain yesterday which is the very same brand as before.........I called the vet he says lets do nothing until tommorrow except stop all grain.....He seems to think it could be the bag of grain... he had me compare the labels to see if they had change anything in the grain, they have not......we did notice though that the bag was dirty when the guy loaded it into our jeep, like it had been sitting around for a while, could it have gone bad if that's the case?......My vet just did a fecal week before last on them and it came back clean....Elwood has no signs, but does seem a little off don't know if that is because his brother is down and they are very attached to each other. I asked the vet about any meds and he said not yet, let it run its course unless he gets worse and then I'm to call him......Just wondering what your thoughts are and what you would do?
    Thanks from a worried goat mom.....Denise
     
  2. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Re: whether with diarrhea....need advice!

    I would say that you very well could have got a bad bag of grain. I would call your feed store and see what they say. As for your guy, I would give him some pepto and alsosome Probios or yogurt.

    Sounds like you are keeping a close eye on him!

    He should pull through just fine!
     

  3. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: whether with diarrhea....need advice!

    I had that very thing happen a month ago! Same grain as always and it was my bucks and the 2 yearling does that had runny poops.

    The sack of feed was the last one on the pallet so I figured after that episode that it was "old" so it went up on the hill as deer food...giving pepto to one goat is fun in itself....try giving it to 5...3 of which are very aromatic!

    your vet advised well...you are very lucky to have a goat educated vet! No more grain, all the hay they want, plenty of water and a bit of probios.....something that also works well for mine is a handful of "Old Fashioned" quaker oats....just like what ewe eat, but give it to them dry...it'll help bind the stool.
     
  4. cdtrum

    cdtrum New Member

    Aug 25, 2008
    Northern Indiana
    Re: whether with diarrhea....need advice!

    Ok.....now he is passing pure brown water....called my vet who was on his way to deliver a calf and will be tied up for a couple of hours......he says that 103 is what he considers a fever in our weather......so he advise me to get some pen down him.....which THANK GOD my sheep farmer neighbor has on hand....I will first thing tomorrow when TSC opens.....so we gave him a shot of pen and my husband has gone to get some pepto......It is soooooo true you never have what you need when you need it and it always happens at the worst time, when no stores are open.......vet thinks he has an infection which he said could be from bad grain.......After tomorrow I will have eveything on the emergency supply list!
    Say a little prayer for Jake the goat and hope he gets well fast......my husband and I are just sick that this happened......my DH said it is like having a sick little child......we just love our boys so much!
     
  5. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: whether with diarrhea....need advice!

    Prayers sent for a full recovery, still get some probias into him, it will help. If you do get the probiotic paste tomorrow from TSC...Get the tube labled for cattle, it's what I use, and besides...cattle are ruminents too. It's blue and white and in the section where they have all the colostrum pouches and such.....I dose mine with a 1 inch stripe....or turn the ring on the plunger to a full notch.

    Hope to hear good news in the morning, offer him some gatorade, it will help keep him hydrated.
     
  6. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

    131
    Jan 17, 2009
    Montana
    Re: whether with diarrhea....need advice!

    For scours, a good thing to use is Diarsanyl. It firms the stool and also contains probiotics.
     
  7. cdtrum

    cdtrum New Member

    Aug 25, 2008
    Northern Indiana
    Re: whether with diarrhea....need advice!

    I have been out in the barn since about 4:00am and Jake seems better.....he drank quite a bit of warm water for me and got up and started eating his hay..... looks like he hasn't had diarrhea in a while, I'll go out later and wash up his little booty! I didn't get a temp on him yet, waiting for DH to wake up and help me......but over all he does seem better. Jake also urinated while I was out there, I am assuming that is good? Where can you get Diarsanyl without having to order off the web? Thanks for your advice Liz and goatkid.....I so appreciate it.
     
  8. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: whether with diarrhea....need advice!

    I'veneverused hat s I wouldn't know where to get it. Glad to her that he is drinking and nibbling, thats great! Peeing is good too, his stool should go to pastey now, so don't anic if he doestn't make berries right away. :greengrin:
     
  9. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Re: whether with diarrhea....need advice!

    well I think you have gotten things sort of under control at least for now. I hope he continues to recover for you.

    did you smell the bag, does it smell weird or anything?

    There was something poisonous in a bale of hay once and everytime the goat got better and started to eat she goat sick again -- till I opened a new bale then everything got better. So that is an option too though it is usually rare.
     
  10. cdtrum

    cdtrum New Member

    Aug 25, 2008
    Northern Indiana
    Re: whether with diarrhea...****update....still need advice!****

    Ok......It has been a long day! This morning Elwood started showing signs of not feeling well also, so we took his temp and it was 103.5......called the vet, he came out....he is stumped....he looked at the grain and hay and saw nothing to cause alarm, but we agreed that we will get rid of the grain.....I have already started pulling from another bale of hay.....Vet seems to think they have caught a virus.....he looked over their yard and pen and said things looked great and everything is very clean.....sooooo he gave both boys a shot of pen and a shot for fever...the wierd thing is Elwood, instead of having the runs, he has not pooped today....vet did a rectal and said there are good berries in there, that the fever can slow eveything down.....he doesn't want me to give Elwood anything else, he thinks that Elwood will probably end up having a bout of diarrhea. Jake seems better tonight, they both are so on edge after all they have been through today......Elwood runs from me when I walk into his pen, verse running up and jumping all over me. I feel like I should give Elwood some MOM.....but hubby says I should trust our vet and do what he said....which is give him nothing but hay and water.....my vet is not big on giving all the extras, he likes to let things work themselves out.....I want the boys fixed right now! He does not beleive it is worms or cocci....both boys have good color and he said this came on so fast. My vet is very experienced in goats so I do trust him, but I still can't help feeling like maybe I should give Elwood some MOM and get things moving.....any thoughts?
    Sorry for the rambling......I am soooo tired with only 3hrs sleep last night!
     
  11. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: whether with diarrhea....UPDATE....still need advice!

    Has Jakes diarrhea subsided?

    Are they drinking enough water? Sometimes a bit of dehydration will cause a constipation, the MOM may help get rid of whatever is causing the tummy problem, but if he does end up with diarrhea before you give him the dose, make sure you get the probias into them...antibiotics can cause rumen upset too.
     
  12. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Re: whether with diarrhea....UPDATE....still need advice!

    its really hard to say. Sometimes it is best to not give anything but hay and water to rule out everything and to see if that is all tha is needed to bring everything back to normal.
     
  13. cdtrum

    cdtrum New Member

    Aug 25, 2008
    Northern Indiana
    Re: whether with diarrhea....UPDATE....still need advice!

    Ok....went out to check on them a while ago and I'm happy to say that Elwood pooped while I was out there...I went out there with MOM in my hand but decided to just watch them for a few minutes and he had a BM!!!! He actually had normal goat berries....not a lot like usual but enough that I felt ok with not giving the MOM...... and yes, Liz I went today and got the probios paste and gave that to them....my vet did agree that that would be a good idea......they love very warm water so every time I go out I take a bucket and they both do drink some.....niether one likes gatorade or any fruit flavored drink, but they love their warm water....they still aren't eating normal....more a less picking at their hay......they have been munching on the clean straw that I put down today. They both seem to rest peaceful when laying down.....vet listened to their lungs and chest and stomach....he said for what is going on with them he didn't hear anything alarming......Elwood did have some extra rumbling and Jake was more quite, but the vet said that is what he expected since Jake had all the diarrhea last night and Elwood was just starting to show signs of getting sick. Jakes diarrhea has gone, now if he will just start having somewhat normal BM's.......this whole thing has me baffled.....The grain does not smell bad, even the vet smelled it and looked at it....the guy at TSC showed me today how to read the dates on the bags, which I had no idea......I checked the date when I got home and the date is good, but the bag is very dirty....the vet said if a rodent had maybe urinated on the bag and it seeped through that could be the culprit, but like he said it is hard to say......it just seems funny that they were both fine until I started the new bag of grain, within 24hr. Jake was starting to show signs, but the vet didn't seem to think they would run fever if it were just bad grain.....but I found out that the feed mill where I bought the grain has been cited and even closed down for a week due to poor health regulations......it is a small town local feed mill which we like to give our business to the small guy, but I will buy from TSC from now on.
    Ok....I have rambled enough.....thank you guys for your help, I always feel better with advice from TGS!
     
  14. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Re: whether with diarrhea....UPDATE....still need advice!

    well I think you are doing just fine. The boys will pull through. It could be something in the feed like a chemical or bacteria that got in there that wouldnt smell but enough to bother the goats. Or it could be unrelated at all.

    Probios is good. Glad you did that :thumbup:
     
  15. goatkid

    goatkid New Member

    131
    Jan 17, 2009
    Montana
    Re: whether with diarrhea....UPDATE....still need advice!

    I'm not sure where to get Diarsanyl where you live. My vet carries it as does a ranch supply store in Great Falls. I just run to the vet when I need it. I like to have a tube on hand.
     
  16. cdtrum

    cdtrum New Member

    Aug 25, 2008
    Northern Indiana
    Re: whether with diarrhea....UPDATE....still need advice!

    Happy to say that both boys greeted me this morning at the their gate when I walked into the barn :leap: .....still a little quiter then usual.....Jake the one that had such bad diarrhea, pooped clumped berries this a.m., so I guess he is headed back in the right direction.....still no diarrhea with Elwood, so maybe he won't have it. They both seemed happy when I brought some fresh hay in. Just wish I could figure out what happened :shrug: , I'm almost afraid to let them back out into their yard for fear there is something out there that caused this.....it has warmed up here and all the snow is melting and their yard is very wet and the ground is mushy so I think I'll keep them in until things dry up some. Oh, do you and how do you clean up all the goat berries in your yards.....with the snow melt it looks like their whole yard is just covered....maybe rake them? They have a very grassy yard area.
     
  17. lesserweevil

    lesserweevil New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Re: whether with diarrhea....UPDATE....still need advice!

    I sweep up the berries in the barn... outside I just leave them
    LW
     
  18. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    Re: whether with diarrhea....UPDATE....still need advice!

    :leap: Thats great news! The majority of the time a bout with diarrhea is normal.....and clears within a day or 2. Very good rule to go by is to observe and treat when neccessary...if they are eating and drinking fine and have no temp, let it run its course with added probias, but no longer than 2 days without treatment.

    You re very lucky to have a great vet, and you had recent fecals done, the boys just had a belly ache from something that didn't agree with them.

    As far as outside berries go....I rake them up and pitch them onto the manure pile, if I can...as mos are allready mushed!
     
  19. cdtrum

    cdtrum New Member

    Aug 25, 2008
    Northern Indiana
    So this morning I check the boys eyelids since they have been sick....eyelids looked pale to me, so I ran a fecal to vet and it came back positive....aaaahhhhhh! what am I doing wrong????? Vet doesn't think last weekend's illness was because of worms....he thinks the stress/sickness they went through last weekend could have allowed the overload of worms......I am so frustrated :hair: ! I try very hard to take care of these guys! Vet wants me to come by and pick up wormer this a.m.......when the office first called they just told me to give wormer (my vet was not in office at that moment) so I gave them horse paste, my vet called me when he got back into office and wants me to come get pancur (sp?) I forgot to tell him I already gave ivermitcin(sp?)....will that be a problem giving them 2 different wormers :? ? I hope he is at the office this morning.....but he usually is out at farms Saturday morning and the regular dog/cat vet is at the office.....I don't trust that vet where the goats are concerned. Also, should I completely clean out the boys pen and put all new bedding down? What can I do for prevention.......I check the boys membranes on a regular basis and just had a fecal ran 2 weeks ago!
     
  20. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    What worms did they say your boys had? Panacur is just a more expensive version of safeguard. So it will most likely be cheaper to just buy it at the grain store than to buy it from the vet.