Organic

Discussion in 'Goat Management' started by MiGoat, Jul 6, 2010.

  1. Coyote Night Acres

    Coyote Night Acres New Member

    498
    Dec 26, 2010
    Missouri
    Not a fan of organic. I have my personal reasons, based off of experiences with people raising organic. Sorry, but I have a strict no sale policy to known organic goat owners. I'm not rude about it, but if it comes down to me selling to an organic goat owner I'll just keep the doe's. I beleive my goats are quite happy not being organic. Yes they eat a pelleted grain and I know they are getting the essential nutrition they need and are very healthy. They are wormed, given copper boluses, selenium, CD&T and regular foot trimmings. I'de rather give my goats the very best than to skimp on their health for a status.
     
  2. Itchysmom

    Itchysmom New Member

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington
    I have done a bit of research on this also and have decided to go "Natural" rather than organic. My pasture has not been farmed for over 20 years so there has been no fertilizer or chemicals on it that long. It is very difficult to find organic feed here unless you grow it yourself. So, natural is my way. I do not vaccinate as no one here really does and my herd will not leave my property...not goats within a 20 mile radias of me. Only livestock that would even come close are my horses and a few cows that are pastured above me. Ranchers here take very good care of thier cattle..sick cows means no money!
     

  3. Steve

    Steve New Member

    261
    Mar 12, 2011
    Central Ky
    I dont really care about "organic" as much i do natural.I read from above posts you cant keep a vaccinated animal in your herd.If my animals need vaccinated they will leave the farm when they are better.Same goes for worms,if i have an animal that cant deal with some worms,they will be gone.

    This is the problem with many animal owners today.Most want to make sure their animal are being taken care of the best they can,no matter the cost or medicine they "have" to buy.Let the animals tell you who you need to keep and who needs to be culled,forget the pet status when breeding animals.If its a pet it should be taken special care of and also castrated or fixed so it cannot breed.

    For true organic farming to happen,one person can take care of maybe 10 goats,i say this because once a tractor is involved the organic BS goes out the window,i dont care who is certifying the organic farms.Its all just a scam to raise prices on everything and make more people think they are getting a better product.

    One more thing,whats wrong with soy and corn? Modified or not its still corn,once the goat passes it,it all looks the same.
     
  4. Amos

    Amos New Member

    Oct 2, 2008
    Minnesota
    Here is a recent article from the CountrySide Magazine about going organic with dairy goats;
    http://www.countrysidemag.com/issues/95 ... goats.html

    Personally, I buy local before I buy organic. Then again, we raise a majority of our own foods, so I haven't thought too far into the organic status. I don't necessarily believe it's a scam all the time; for some producers I'm sure it is, but not all.

    I definitely agree with you Steve, culling for hardiness is a big thing that people forget about.

    The thing about soy is that unless it is properly fermented it essentially acts as a growth hormone in our bodies and can cause liver, thyroid, and other health problems. We shouldn't even be eating soy, not to mention our animals - unless properly fermented, which is how soy and other grains were traditionally prepared for thousands of years. Unfortunately soy is in almost all of the foods you find in your typical store.

    A large problem with GMO foods is that they are being engineered to be resistant to certain types of insects and work with so many different chemicals to produce more yields. In the process, since they have started this, there have been countless health problems as a result (not to mention environmental), but, like the pharmaceutical companies and how many others, there is too much money to be made by it so it will continue. It is simply not a sustainable option in the long term. As I always say - Mess with nature, and she messes with you.
     
  5. Steve

    Steve New Member

    261
    Mar 12, 2011
    Central Ky
    How would these crops do anything to harm you or your animals though? They are just crossing them right?I understand the roundup ready crops have been designed to withstand chemicals,i can see the chemicals affecting peoples health.
     
  6. yellowstone

    yellowstone New Member

    61
    Jan 8, 2011
    Colorado
    There are two main kinds of GMO crops, Bt and RoundupReady. The RoundupReady crops are going to have huge amounts of Roundup herbicide sprayed on them. Bt is a pesticide. In those crops the Bt itself has been spliced into the plant's genes. So the pesticide isn't sprayed on, it's already in the plant. It is not a matter of "just crossing them," the DNA is being switched in and out in a lab. As for what it can do to your herd or to you, here is a link to a multi-generational study on genetically engineered soy:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-s ... 44575.html
     
  7. SweetSaanens

    SweetSaanens New Member

    72
    Mar 6, 2011
    I agree that you can't have a huge goat dairy farm and still be organic (at least not humanely)We don't use a tractor at all we just fence off an area and put the right animal in it to do the appropriate job (Pig to till, Goat to mow etc) we also keep the leaves from the fruit trees (no stone fruits of course) at the end of the season so we don't have to bale hay for the winter, we still give them hay but we don't have to store as much so we just buy organic hay. Their pastures are set up as live feed fields (there are 6, and they spend 2 weeks in each field with more planted in it than just grass) 3/4 of our property is not developed so the goats walk a trail through the forest everyday browsing on food that would not be available in a pasture but should be in a goats diet. Goats can be organic and still be very healthy animals. To be safe our goats get regular vet check ups and I run monthly fecal counts. They have wonderful shiny coats, none of them are too skinny (I do admit 1 or two could stand to loose a few pounds which I know is not good either), they are all very active and happy goats and still productive.

    A truly organic farm has to be small but in my opinion so does a humane farm! so we thought that if we are going for a humane farm we might as well make it organic and increase our income which in turn provides better care for our goats.

     
  8. Fairytaleranch

    Fairytaleranch New Member

    12
    Mar 26, 2010
    What a great topic! I am normally a topic lurker, Im not a big talker lol but I really enjoy the goat spot and its endless information that you normally can't even get from a good goat book!

    This topic is one that I am always thinking about, I have noticed that alot of goat owners and other livestock owners for that matter, don't really understand why there is a demand for organic and why organic is so popular. I'm not one for government titles either, but I think there is alot of misunderstanding in organics for sure.

    My family and I go for grass fed organic local whenever possible. Its not about going green, its about health. The media really groups organic people with the "green environmentalists" but its really not about that so much as it is about health and not supporting corporate scandals. The topic of organics inevitably leads to the question if it is all hogwash or what is so special about it.

    Gmo's: Theres alot of corporation corruption, and gmos are a huge part of that. A lot of people avoid these because of the lack of scientific study. I believe and many others, that there is a lot of hidden health hazards in gmos and if the corporations were not afraid of anything the public might find out they would do a more elaborate study. Gmo seeds are patented, which under the constitution it is illegal to patent life. Gmos guarantee the sales of pesticides and new seeds yearly, it is very profitable. There are some great independent health sites out there that have much more elaborate information on gmos than I can provide.

    Organic feed is very hard to find, in this neck of the woods anyway, usually you might be able to find a local mill that specializes in non gmo but they arent certified due to the cost of certification. There are a lot of people that are organic in nature, just not certified. Anyone who is interested in organic feed might try a local farmers market and talk to a few people there who might know someone.

    I have had nothing but trouble with conventional methods, vets and problems in more than one species of animal. I think what it comes down to is your morals and what works best for you. Organic people are not 'evil' just as conventional people are not 'evil' it is the corporations to watch out for.

    Always keep in mind to keep your eyes and mind open to new methods, and old methods as is actually the case in organics before it was labeled so. Domesticated goats have survived thousands of years on natural methods and only in the last 100 years or so have we been changing that.

    Vaccines: I've never had one problem with not vaccinating, goats, dogs and horses, I believe all can repel disease with proper nutrition and exercise which is what holistic care and some organic care is all about. Vaccines are on the same level of alarm as gmos, there is alot of conflicting evidence and some people avoid them all together for the sole reason that they contain several known carcinogens. Again, an independant health website might the best choice for deciding on to vaccinate or not.

    I'm always striving for more information, more research and more data to better raise all types of animals, and that is the best we all can do is never stop learning and validate all information for the benefit of animals that are under our care ! :)
     
  9. Itchysmom

    Itchysmom New Member

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington
    I pretty much agree with Fairytaleranch. To me "organic" is more a gimmic than any thing esle. To have a huge farm and be organic to me is impossible. On a small homestead level I can see it. But, is it necessary?

    To me natural is a much better way. You do what you need to to keep your animals healthy. This means feeding them properly, keeping them healthy so they can fight off deseases and sickness. A healthy animal will do this without having to be wormed, vaccinated, etc. Now, if the animal is terribly sick, then yes...treat the problem with antibiotics, etc. There are plenty of natural antibiotics in nature. If you have a good pasture with a diverse plant life, your animals will eat what they need to keep themselves healthy.

    Nature has always provided us with what we need. The example given above: is a breed of goat that is feral can be labeled "organic" as these goats eat what they need to stay healthy and survive. Man has not interfered.

    I do not vaccinate any of my animals. They stay on my farm, do not travel to shows and my area has not had any outbreak of any desease in decades. My biggest trouble is keeping them from getting too fat! The only time I have called a vet out was to suture a wound and float my horses teeth. Things I cannot do.

    The problem I have with organic is the price. Everyone wants to eat heathly and unless you live where you can grow your own, then you have to pay the price. Here I can get grass fed beef (YUM) vegetables grown by myself or a neighbor, eggs and chickens that really are free range, etc. Not everyone can, so I guess buying organic is the only way to go.

    And GMO....don't even get me started!