Orphaned 1 month old baby goat

Discussion in 'Kidding Koral' started by jenjenners, Aug 17, 2010.

  1. jenjenners

    jenjenners New Member

    7
    Aug 17, 2010
    Hi, I'm new here--I'm from Hawaii. I'm the proud owner of a 13 year old wild/Nubian/something or another cross who thinks she's a dog, and a 1 year old orphaned wild goat (bottle fed as a baby) whose owner couldn't take care of her anymore. Also in the pasture are 2 sheep, some kind of St. Croix/Barbados cross.

    Today my neighbor called me to take care of a kid born about 4 weeks ago--mom just dropped dead in the pasture. Boer, I think--he got the mom, dad and auntie from the University. No idea why mom died, he has also lost 2 sheep recently in the same pasture, as well as the baby's dad.

    Baby is grazing well, I got about 2 oz. of milk into him before dark (I may go down and try again, he seems to be finally *kind of* getting the idea that there's food in the bottle I keep shoving into his poor mouth!)

    He misses his auntie and the 2 sheep they had with him, but my sheep are sweet. Lucky (the orphan wild goat) is kind of being a pain to the baby, but it's a big pasture and baby can usually avoid attention (I'm keeping an eye on the situation, it's only been a few hours!). He's not really crying, when I check on him he'll bleat a little, but he's mostly just eating grass and checking the place out. I feel better having him in our pasture, though, since we have no idea what is causing the deaths in my neighbor's pasture??

    We have Snowflake kid milk (neighbor just bought a brand new tub before calling me to help). How often does he need to eat at this age? He hasn't nursed in a couple of days, according to my neighbor (not sure exactly when mom died?) but he's strong and grazing, and running around. Like I said, I got maybe 2 oz. into him, but no more than that yet in the last 5 hours I've had him.

    I have bottle fed a sheep, as well as numerous small animals (kittens, etc.), and even hand raised a sparrow, so I'm pretty good with orphans in general, but I am looking for advice to do what is best for a poor little goat in this situation... Any help is greatly appreciated!

    :whatgoat:

    (sorry if this is a duplicate, I couldn't find it one I posted, not sure if I need to be moderated sine I'm new?)
     
  2. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    (yes all new members have to have their posts approved until you reach 25 approved posts its kind of like a security thing. We try to approve them as fast as possible -legit posts that is)

    as to your little guy -- if the parents just dropped dead thats scary. To bad you dont know why and i hope it doesnt infect your herd. Worms come to mind as a possibility as that can kill an adult goat easily when they get overloaded. YOu can have his fecal checked for worms and coccidia. Sometime I like to do when bringing goats in from unknown situations.

    as to bottle feeding him -- It may take him a couple days to get the hang of the bottle -- what kind of nipples are you using? some like the pritchard nipples others like human baby bottle nipples (make the hole bigger by putting an X in the tip). I never really like the lambar nipples (big black rubber ones) but some have good success with them and I have used them as well.
     

  3. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    First o all. Welcome :wave: to the Goat Spot. I am so sorry you are having to deal with this.
    Do you know f any other signs that the neighbors animals had before they died? I would be really worried that the little one might bring whatever it is with him to your herd.
    Watch really close for any signs that he is not normal, Hanging head, tail down, and anything else that is different that what you have noticed. Watch for a fever, foam from his mouth, (not from the bottle).
    Good luck. I sure wish I could help you more.
     
  4. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Welcome to the goat spot .... :hug:

    I am sorry that happened ...what a scary thing...I agree with the others .... keep a close eye on your goats...... :hug:
     
  5. mrs. lam

    mrs. lam New Member

    Apr 20, 2010
    Welcome fro m Alabama! I was an army brat and lived on Oahu for three years. Used to ride in the pineapple fields a lot. :greengrin:

    Good luck with the little one. Got any pictures?

    Gina
     
  6. carmen escamilla

    carmen escamilla New Member

    61
    Jul 23, 2010
    texas
    hi and welcome to the answer how much to feed i had a bottle baby and i fed him out of a 20 oz soda bottle i gave him 2 times a day one in the am and the other like 6 pm he was given hay and grain to eat during the day up to the age of 6 weeks so he did pretty good he learn to eat on his own may be cause he had too since i was only limited how much milk he would get but he did just fine i used the little red nipples and put on x on it on top as well so i wouldnt give him too much milk cause he we aways be full and he wont want to eat the food and u will be stuck feeding him so just give him so he can have some milk in him and as far as mom and dad sudden death yea i would keep him alone at lease for a week to see if he has anything a bug or etc.. good luck in ur little one and hope u do good with him i raise boar goats as well..another thing i would give him a cd/t shot as well ..just to be on the safe side also a dewormer...
     
  7. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I wouldnt suggest feeding 20 ounces at one time this can cause bloat and other serious issues.

    8-12 ounces for a 4 week old is good approx 3-4 times a day.
     
  8. jenjenners

    jenjenners New Member

    7
    Aug 17, 2010
    Thank you everyone... He looks very healthy so far, although his gums are kind of paler than I'd like (but I'm used to seeing dogs and cats, not sure what 'normal' gum color is in goats?). Could be worms, I will have my vet friend do a sample, if I can talk him into it (he's strictly small animal, but is sometimes willing to take on my projects...). There really are no large animal vets in the area, they come from Waimea (about 1 hour away) and charge a LOT for travel, etc.

    The other slightly strange thing I notice is that it kind of looks like his butt is in the air all the time, but maybe that's a normal thing for his breed? He seems to be eating grass and pooping and peeing fine.

    The other ones that died were like fine one day and dead the next? I am keeping an eye, so far the little guy is a loner so they haven't had much contact. Lucky is kid of a bully, so I put her in the upper pasture (aka 'the backyard') last night. Sienna/13 year old goat is in there with the dog usually, but the dog was in the house for the night, so Lucky and Sienna coexisted peacefully, and the sheep and baby could share the house/shelter without being bullied. During the day he just grazes far away from her.

    Still can't get more than a trickle of milk into him, he seems to dislike the pritchard, gonna try a human nipple. He will gulp a little when I first put it in, but then just holds it in his mouth, refuses to suck or swallow, and just glares at me, no matter how I jiggle it, or make sucking noises, or put it out and in, etc. ;) Will keep trying. I'm off tomorrow, so I'll have more time to really work with him. I'm a teacher, but I live 3 houses away from the school, so I am feeding him in the am, lunch, afternoon and night. I realize I probably can spread it out a little once he's actually getting something, but I'm still worried that all he's getting is pasture grass for the last few days? :(
     
  9. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    sometimes the milk isnt warm enough or is to warm -- I had a picky bottle baby. He loved his bottle but if it wasnt the right temp he would totally refuse it.

    its not easy to get a 4 week on the bottle though :(

    I would just ask teh vet to run the stool sample -- its the same for a small animal or a goat, check for coccidia and worms. But you can also sent it to a lab directly. I do believe WADDL (its in washington state) will accept owner samples.
     
  10. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    Go ahead & tell your vet this IS a small animal! :wink:
    No, it's not normal for his hind end to be in the air like that ask vet about possible Floppy Kid Syndrome. He can go down real quick if not treated asap. This might be why he is loosing suck reflex. Is his belly sloshy?
    I have directions on hand for treatment if you need it.

    ps I would rather be wrong in guessing what this is than not saying anything
     
  11. jenjenners

    jenjenners New Member

    7
    Aug 17, 2010
    Well... He's still doing well, strong, grazing, etc. Smart little guy, too--I came home yesterday evening and couldn't find him, no 'maaah'ing, no sign of him. I searched the entire pasture, thinking he had taken chill during the brief rain instead of finding shelter, and was too weak, etc. 1/2 hour later (and many scratches!) I thought to look in the chicken pen (which is partially open), and there he was, all curled up asleep in the dog kennel that the chickens have never used. LOL (Instead of their nice house, or the dog kennel, they all tend to sleep in a pile underneath the roofing next to the kennel--go figure?) I'm glad he found that on his own, so I won't worry as much about Lucky not letting him in the main shelter, she can't get him in there. (She's actually only annoying him every once and a while, I'm keeping an eye...).

    Gonna bring in a stool sample tomorrow. I also noticed some white spots under his ears that look like some kind of lice--would like to treat him before he infects the others (still really no contact between them, especially since he's found his own little house). Ideas?

    As for bottle feeding--no dice. :( He hates the Pritchard, and hates the human nipple almost as much. (I understand the phrase 'stubborn as a goat' much better now! :laugh: ) I'm thinking of tube feeding him at this point, it's been like 3-4 days and only a trickle of milk. What do you think? I'm comfortable doing it (done it w/ sheep and smaller, more delicate animals...). Might be hard, though, since he's strong and might fight me? But it can't be any more traumatic than sticking a bottle forcibly in his mouth a few times a day, and he is starting to get a little bit dehydrated. I do have unopened lactated ringers and fresh needles from when my dogs were sick that I could probably give subcutaneously, but his skin is only a little tacky, and I think if I get fluids into him the old fashioned way, that will be alleviated.

    Should I tube him? I picked up the supplies, just in case... What do you guys think?

    Also, he is eating a tiny bit of grain/lamb chow. (One sheep is prego, kind of by accident--got in with the boys in the pasture next door! Trying to boost her rations, so I got sheep food instead of goat food for now so they don't get too much copper, normally all of them are mostly pasture fed...) Would it help his nutrient intake to mix some formula powder into that? I haven't given him more than a little bit yet, don't want to upset his tummy--his stool is still pelleted and normal right now, thank goodness!

    Will try to get a good pic. And I don't *think* he has FKS, seems a little old according to what I've read (although I have no idea on such things, myself) and he's strong--he seems to walk normally, it just kind of looks like his front legs are shorter than the back legs or something?

    All advice very welcomed!!! :)
     
  12. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    Hi and welcome to TGS :D your little guy sounds like he is doing superbly, considering the situation ...

    Honestly if it were me, 1 mth old kid are notoriously difficult to get on the bottle, and if this guy wont take it after several days without suckling, and changing teats etc, I'd say he wasnt going to.

    If he is still strong etc. I wouldnt worry about bottling or tubing him.

    The GREAT news is he is eating solids - grass etc.

    The grass isnt enough for him alone, being so young, so I would give him access to as much grain and hay as he wants. You want a nice high protein grain 18 - 20% protein is ideal, nothing lower than 16%. And a nice grassy or cereal hay, not alfalfa. You can mix some milk powder into the grain.

    Also put out lots of fresh water for him if he isnt drinking from your water source, or cant reach it. I sometimes find the slower kids benefit from a few shallow pans just placed randomly around. They stumble across it and are like 'oh cool, water, perhaps I'll have a drink now'

    You might have to construct a little bit of a pen/yard for him so the others cant pinch his food. You can make what we call a 'creep feeder', so make a little gate with an opening that only he can fit through, that way he can get into the pen to get the good food (and I'd put his dog kennel in there since he seems to like that) but he can also come out at his leisure and eat the grass and run around in the pasture. The key is that the hole in the gate is small enough that the other animals cant fit through it.

    ALso just thought I'd mention ... dont let him eat the chicken feed. Tis bad for goats but goats being goats they love everything that is bad for them ...

    And now I'd love to see a picture! He sounds adorable!
     
  13. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    :thumb: good job Jenjenners!!
     
  14. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    at this point he probably wont take a bottle -- tubing him is up to you. Do you see him drinking? thats the main concern.
     
  15. jenjenners

    jenjenners New Member

    7
    Aug 17, 2010
    http://twitpic.com/2g1ggj
    Here he is! Tentatively dubbed Oreo...

    http://twitpic.com/2g1gyy
    Eating grass...

    http://twitpic.com/2g1gsw
    Close up...

    Couldn't get the pics to load directly without editing them, sorry!

    Still on the fence about tubing. I think he is drinking *some*, he seems a bit more hydrated today. Going to leave water everywhere, like was suggested... He does seem to be getting a bit 'bony', but still strong, grazing like a fiend. Tried the grain I have that he likes (will get good stuff tomorrow), but mixed it w/ the formula powder--as soon as he sensed that, after like 1 bite, he was like, 'I'm having none of THAT!'. Wonder if it's the type of milk he's rejecting, too? I tried putting the milk in a bowl, he turned his nose up. Still acts as if I'm torturing him when I try the bottle.

    Any advice on the lice? (I know, wrong forum, but not sure if I need to start a new thread in the general forum...) Looks like nits all under his ears and teeny little horns... Not sure what kind--looks like nits in human kids (remember I'm a teacher!) but all in one spot and white against his black fur... Too much stress to treat him at this point?
     
  16. jenjenners

    jenjenners New Member

    7
    Aug 17, 2010
    Forgot to add--the pen for the chickens will be perfect, it's strong enough to keep Lucky out, I just need to modify the door (chickens are pretty much free range at this point anyway, and just hang in the pasture...). I can make the door strong and cut a little chicken/small goat sized hole... I will also rig up something so baby/Oreo doesn't get to the chicken food (like a chicken creep feeder). I need to anyway, the sheep and other goat keep trying to steal the chicken food too--I don't think Oreo will care too much if he doesn't have easy access as long as he has his own grain, but Lucky is STUBBORN.

    Is it OK if the sheep/goats eat a bit of their scratch grain, though? I'm pretty sure it's just straight grain (cracked corn, oats, etc.). Not as a ration, just in passing... I'll definitely keep them away from the chick starter...

    Any specific grain I should look for? I know you said high protein, and hard to know exactly what our stores carry, but can you give me an idea? Any things to stay away from? :lovey: (These icons are cute!)
     
  17. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    if you are comfortable tubing then go for it -- sometimes its good to give them a head start so they dont go down hill. Had to do this with a kid this year. She wasnt real bad off but bad off enough that I was worried. I tubed her a couple ounces and then she was strong enough to do it on her on from then on.

    if he doesnt like the milk powder on his grain then go straight grain with nothign on it. Best to have him eating something nutritious then nothing at all

    you can treat the lice - if thats what he has. With VetRx, Sevin Dust or Permectrin

    as long as the chickens food isnt medicated it wont hurt the goats or sheep BUT excess corn is not good for goats so its not recommended that they eat to much of it.
     
  18. keren

    keren owned by goats

    Oct 26, 2008
    Australia
    ditto exactly what stacey said ^^^ :D

    straight grain no milk powder

    yes to the lice treatment - the lice will drag him down if they stay on him

    yeah a little bit of scratch mix here and there wont hurt as long as its just grain - but just dont overdo it

    sounds like you are doing a fantastic job :D well done!!
     
  19. jenjenners

    jenjenners New Member

    7
    Aug 17, 2010
    UPDATE: :)

    Well, I gave in and started tubing him. I gave him 2 oz. yesterday (just to get him started, didn't want to upset his tummy since he hasn't had milk in so long...), then 4 this morning, then 8 tonight. I plan to go 8 oz. 2X a day for another couple of weeks, then slowly taper, just to make sure he's getting enough calcium. I had a goat long ago who was weaned too early (by the previous owners) and went downhill fast--the vet said she had calcium deficiency, and we wound up losing her. I've learned a LOT since then (that was about 13 years ago, pre-sheep and other goats) but I'm a little paranoid. He takes the tubing a lot better than I expected (so far!!). :thumb:

    His stool is a little soft--not diarrhea, just not pelleted. I couldn't hook up with my vet friend yet, so I wormed him with .5cc Safeguard (for goats). His gums were looking paler, even though he's strong, and I figured better safe than sorry. I will still check for coccidia, though...

    Still grazing like a fiend! Will not eat the all-stock mixed with calf manna (to boost the protein), but will eat it mixed with the lamb/sheep chow (that has like 16%, I think, all-stock only 12%...). I thought goats weren't picky?? LOL :laugh: Still working on finding him something higher protein that he actually likes. It's hard because I can't feed goat stuff to the sheep (copper) but to buy a 20lb. bag for such a little guy is kind of silly. I *could* give the other goats goat stuff separately, but they are adults, not lactating (although Sienna is old!) and don't really need it. Any supplement ideas to mix with the allstock, or something they might give me in smaller quantities? Or will his current mix plus the milk be enough for now...? They seem to be limited here as far as high protein non-horse stuff... :whatgoat: His hydration looks good, he must finally be drinking...

    I'm pleased that he's still in such good shape, it's been exactly a week that we've had him, I think mama died about 2 days before that (the neighbors called me a bit after the fact, maybe if I got him sooner he wouldn't have been so stubborn about the bottle!!). Keeping my fingers crossed that he continues to thrive!!
     
  20. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    the people who say goats arent picky dont own goats!

    goats do need copper - its important for their overall health (a copper deficiency can make them susceptible to worms and getting infections)