Pale white eyelids, fecal ok, what's going on?

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by FMW, Oct 31, 2020.

  1. FMW

    FMW Active Member

    200
    Jun 30, 2020
    midwest
    I am bringing my Nubian doe to the vet this week to confirm if she is pregnant. She looks, to me, that she may be pregnant, which would be awesome. We have been working hard to get her to be really strong and healthy. We also had used some antibiotic measures bc of suspected chlamydia.

    Anyway, I had posted my concerns about this doe having some vaginal discharge. I was worried bc she may be pregnant. Posters commented that discharge may be normal in pregnancy. Well, today when I checked all the goats' eyelids, everyone was great except hers. Hers were pretty much white, which I have never seen on her before. She also has been having some eye drainage, but her eyes aren't pink or anything.

    I noticed her manure was clumpier than usual so I did a fecal today, especially after seeing the white eyelids. Her barber pole was 800 and coccidia was 2000. Last numbers I have from the beginning of September were 300ish for barber pole and 2100 for coccidia.

    I haven't been as good about giving garlic the last 3 weeks, but she continues to get the herb/worm balls about 1-2 times a week for the last three to four weeks. And definitely a lot more than that over the summer.

    I decreases the amount of herbs I have been giving the goats the last few weeks, so I wonder if it has negatively impacted this goat because she may be pregnant.

    Anyway, I triple dosed her today with the worm balls and garlic and noticed her eyelids became light pink later in the day. Her manure had been clumpy and soft for the last week or two, but returned to pellets tonight. Can the worm balls work that fast? I also filled the balls with essential oils such as thyme, cinnamon, oregano, lemon, orange, and digest zen.

    I will do a fecal after a few days again. I plan to triple dose her tomorrow and Monday. I didn't think the barbable numbers were that high to create super pale/ white eyelids. Is that possible??? I would love to know your experience on this.

    Also, she had an early pregnancy loss last fall (Nov 2019) and the spring before (March 2019) she birthed twins about three weeks early. She hasn't had a successful birth in her life and she'll be 4 in Feb.
     
  2. Moers kiko boars

    Moers kiko boars Well-Known Member

    Apr 22, 2018
    Oklahoma
    Yes barber pole worms will cause anemia. That's the white/ pale eyelids. Its very dangerous worm load. I have given my does 1/2 a human zinc capsule..since that helps thiamine generation. Which helps increase the B vitamin level in goats. I also give 6cc of Red Cell daily for 5 days. Which will increase iron & vitamins in the doe.
    I don't use worm balls I use traditional dewormers. This is what I use.
    I use 1cc quest horse dewormer & 3cc ivomec for a 150lb doe. And then 3cc of ivomec 10 days later to kill baberpole worm eggs ..or young worms.
     
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  3. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    BP numbers are high enough to cause issue.

    Please do not use cinnamon or clove EO if she is pregnant.

    Use the other oils once a day for 3 days on 4 days off.

    I’m not sure which herbs you use, if they are land of Havilah’s or Fir Meadow’s two formulas, dose triple dose every three hours for a day and then triple dose 2x a day for another 5 days. This is a minimum.

    If she’s super pale, chemical deworming may be in order, I would do a combo of Ivomec and safeguard to go for the most gentle wormer combo possible. If you have used Ivomec before, use cydectin oral and safeguard instead.

    B Complex and red cell. 6cc per 100lbs for both.

    50/50 ACV water drenches and smoothies with dark greens, apple, banana, parsley, carrot, celery, and alfalfa or wheatgrass is good.

    Make sure she has plenty of alfalfa in her diet.
     
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  4. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    Curious why you use two dewormers of the same class - quest is moxidectin (cydectin) and Ivomec is ivermectin, these two are quite similar, so you won’t get the combo effect that is aimed for with two different classes such as a safeguard or albendazole.
     
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  5. lottsagoats1

    lottsagoats1 Well-Known Member

    Apr 12, 2014
    Middle Maine
    Given that it is winter, a lot of female worms cease laying eggs, so fecals look clear when they truly are not.
     
  6. FMW

    FMW Active Member

    200
    Jun 30, 2020
    midwest
    Thank you.

    Can you give me a link for B complex? Is it a pill? Also, what is red cells? I don't have any of these two things.

    Also, I thought cloves is the only EO that is contraindicated for pregnancy! I had given her about 3 drops of cinnamon today!! I hope I didn't cause a problem. I definitely will stop using the cinnamon.

    Her eyelids did improve a bit tonight again. She eats a good quality hay, chaffhaye, and pasture.

    Can I use zinc as in a tablet form? I also use Land of Havilah's parasite formula and the GI tract.
     
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  7. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  8. FMW

    FMW Active Member

    200
    Jun 30, 2020
    midwest
    This may be a stupid question, but I want to make sure I do this right. The red cells and the b coming complex are given orally in a syringe, right?
     
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  9. TexasGoatMan

    TexasGoatMan Well-Known Member

    601
    Jul 3, 2015
    Dekalb, Texas
    The red cell is hard for the goats to utilize and may cause soft stools or even diarrhea. I have gone to the pig iron. It is easy on their system and does not cause issues with stools. It is for baby piglets. Name is Swine Prefer Iron Boost. It works a lot better than red cell in my opinion. Jeffers sell it. I purchased some at tractor supply but I could not find any listed on line.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2020
  10. NigerianDwarfOwner707

    NigerianDwarfOwner707 Well-Known Member

    May 17, 2018
    East Coast, USA
    B Complex is an injection. Red cell is oral.
     
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  11. goatblessings

    goatblessings Fair-Haven Supporting Member

    Jan 5, 2015
    Southwest Ohio
    If you are taking her to the vet later this week, have them run a fecal while you are there.
     
  12. FMW

    FMW Active Member

    200
    Jun 30, 2020
    midwest
    I should be getting the b complex and red cells tomorrow. I had to order curbside and delivery. Today and yesterday the one eye was probably a 3 and the other eye between a 4-5. So strange that they have been that different. I have been doing garlic, essential oils, and land of havilah worm balls, three times (sometimes 4) a day. Her energy and coat and conditioning all look great, with the exception of her eyes. I will start the recommended b complex and red cells as soon as I can. I am thinking to repeat the fecal tonight or tomorrow. I am not as worried, but still disappointed about the one eye's consistent paleness. I had to cancel my appt this week and will see the vet in two weeks.
     
  13. FMW

    FMW Active Member

    200
    Jun 30, 2020
    midwest
    I redid the fecal today and her barberpole was 700 and coccidia was 900. Her one eye is between a 4-5 and and the other one is about a 3 still.

    So her bp numbers improved slightly, but her eyes still look pale. Her manure was on the soft side yesterday and today, but she's been in pasture quite a bit.

    I hope to see an improvement using the red cells and b complex. I will be giving them to her tonight when I get them.
     
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  14. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
  15. FMW

    FMW Active Member

    200
    Jun 30, 2020
    midwest
    They definitely are improving, but slowly. Her eyelids are about a 3-4 now. They are not pale, white, but a light pink. I decided to stop the EOs and the herb worm balls yesterday because I have been giving them to her since Oct 31. I honestly think I may have been overdosing on the EOs. She was getting about three drops of each EO almost daily (thyme, oregano, lemon, lemongrass, digest zen). I also was giving her 5-6 drops of orange on most days. If I had seen improvement on the third or fourth day, I would have reduced the number of drops, but I was worried that her eyes stayed so pale for so many days. Now I'm worried that I had overdone it and may have harmed her.

    She has had red cells for three days now. My vitamin B complex was cancelled by the company - they went out of stock. I'm looking at other companies at the moment. Does vitamin B complex have to be an injection? I found this gel https://www.jefferspet.com/products/vitamin-b-complex-gel-30gm Can this work too?

    Here are two other ones I have found. If the gel isn't appropriate, which of these two would you purchase?
    https://www.jefferspet.com/products/fortified-vitamin-b-complex-100-ml

    OR

    https://www.jefferspet.com/products/vitamin-b-complex-plus-250ml
     
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  16. FMW

    FMW Active Member

    200
    Jun 30, 2020
    midwest
    I have such nerves around this doe because of her pregnancy/birth history. She had a premature birth in the spring of 2019 and an early abortion in the fall of 2019. The vet is concerned about Chlamydia and so we injected her with antibiotics prior to breeding her this time. She looks like she may be pregnant. She's about 1.5 months pregnant. We have an ultrasound scheduled with the vet in a little over a week.
     
  17. MadHouse

    MadHouse Well-Known Member

    The oral b complex is good for kids, for adults injectable is always recommended.
    Both injectable products look like the right thing, but I would wait until one of the experts confirms this.
     
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  18. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Injection fortified vit b is best.
     
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  19. FMW

    FMW Active Member

    200
    Jun 30, 2020
    midwest
    Finally, we have the fortified vitamin b complex! Do we administer it subcutaneously or into the muscle?

    I watched a video and the person pulled back the plunger on the syringe to the number of cc's needed, in my case 6 cc's. She then placed the needle into the top of the bottle, while the bottle was almost upside down, and then pushed the plunger toward the needle. She then pulled back the plunger to the number of CC's needed and the vitamin had filled the barrel. Does this sound accurate? Do I then inject it into the muscle in front of the shoulder blade?
     
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