Pasteurella Pneumonia (my struggle)

Discussion in 'Health & Wellness' started by trob1, Jan 5, 2008.

  1. trob1

    trob1 New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Middle TN
    I struggled wether to post this or not but in my struggle to doctor and figure out what was wrong with my goats I had a hard time finding alot of information on what my goats had with the symptoms they had. I figure by getting this out it could help someone else.

    Starting at the beginning I purchased 5 goats from out of state and after getting them home they came down with what I figured was shipping fever due to the long ride home. I started them on antibiotics put in their water for 7 days and they seemed to clear up only to have the runny nose come back, clear up, come back and so on. They also had the occasional cough with the runny nose but never a fever so I left them alone only giving vit C in their water. I had found out through the grape vine that the farm I purchased the 5 goats from had a goat die with Pasteurella Pneumonia but was never contacted personally. I watched but never treated due to no fevers and the goats seemed fine other than every few days a runny nose.

    Well New Years weekend I had 3 goats come down with fevers, a cough and then a runny nose. Within just a day I had 10 out of 13 goats with a runny nose and cough. The only three goats that didn't get sick came from a farm who vaccinates for it. I have spent the last few days doing alot of research and talking to some breeders who I really trust and have experience with this. I now know through a nasal swab that I am dealing with Pasteurella Pneumonia herd wide. Thankfully when the fevers happened with the 3 goats I started Bio-mycin 200 injections on them and got the fevers down. Through speaking with a breeder who has experience with this I now have my whole herd on Aureomycin crumbles top dressed on their feed daily for the winter.

    This is how Pasteurella Pneumonia works.

    Pasteurella is a bacteria not a disease and it is spread like a virus through nasal drainage goat to goat and lives in the nasal cavity keeping the goats imune system lowered just enough that the goat can not build immunity to the bug. Full blown cases of Pasteurella Pneumonia can at any time of stress break out in one or more goats. Each time a full blow case happens the goat can develop scar tissue in the lungs and when treated with antibiotic shots for as many as 7 to 10 days you get the Pasteurella numbers down but not gone. Another outbreak can happen at anytime. By using the antibiotic shots followed by long term use of Aureomycin Crumbles or Aureomycin calf feed you keep the Pasturella numbers down long enough for the goat to build up its immune system and build immunity to Pasteurella there by breaking the cycle. When I have broken the Pasteurella cycle I will be vaccinating for it yearly from now on. The Aureomycin crumbles keep a low does of antibiotic in the goats system to help keep the bacteria number low enough for the goat to build up it's immune system to fight the Pasteurella and then the vaccine given a month before kidding kicks the does system to build up antibody's and then pass those on to their kids through nursing. I personally do not like antibiotics and definitely not long term but sometimes we have to do what we do not like.

    Aureomycin crumbles should not be used unless you know for sure this is what you are dealing with and should be used according to directions on the bag using the calf dose. I hope in posting this that when someone is struggling with what I was they can know from reading this to get a nasel swab run find out what is up and then know how to get rid of this and not just treat the symptoms time and time again only to have outbreaks happen time and time again. Please understand not every runny nose is Pasteurella and a nasel swap should be done to confirm.

    Not everyone is going to agree with my plan of treatment but I have started this and I am going to trust the information I have gotten and follow through with the treatment I have started.

    Also anyone who has purchased a goat from me after October 15th 1007 to Jan 1 2008 and you have not been contacted by me it is due to me losing your contact information and please contact me if you are concerned in any way about this. The health and well being of my goats and any goats I have sold is very important to me.
     
  2. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the information that may save one of my goats life someday. I never heard of this before.
    Also- IMO if it comes to death or antibiotics the only humane thing is to treat. I could only wish other breeders where as honest and open as you are.

    Good luck with your treatments. I would love to hear of your progress.
     

  3. kelebek

    kelebek New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    South Texas
    Thank you teresa for posting this!

    I think that even if it only saved one goat, it was definately worth the post~

    Information like this is very vital to everyone that owns goats - especially us newbies!

    Thank you again!

    Allison
     
  4. trob1

    trob1 New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Middle TN
    Thanks you two. That makes me feel like I did the right thing posting this. At times like this sometime you just want to hide your head in the sand but that helps no one. We are all hear to teach and learn how to help our goats. The scary thing about Pasteurella Pneumonia and the reason some call it silent Pneumonia is sometimes the first sign is a dead goat. I got luckily and noticed they just didn't look right and jumped right in and started working on them. Then I spent 2 days researching on the internet.
     
  5. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    OH this is AWESOME Teresa!! THANK YOU THANK YOU for posting this. Now we have a name to go with the symptoms.

    Please do keep this thread updated if you have anymore information that you learn on this.

    What you posted is truly a blessing to all the members here, myself included.

    The only question I have right now is where do you get the crumbles you spoke of?
     
  6. trob1

    trob1 New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Middle TN
    Stacey the crumbles are over the counter at most feed stores. It kinda looks like chicken feed and the goats were unsure the first night what they were but with alittle corn oil over their usual grain then the crumbles mixed in they eat it all right up now. The snots are now gone but I won't get too excited because with this the snots usually will come and go and the girls wont truly be rid of this till I do the vaccine and they start to build antibodies against it. I am in the process right now talking with some people who have experienced this and have found some good vaccines so I have to make my mind up which one to go with. I will keep this thread updated as this progresses and I sure hope it will help someone in the future.
     
  7. trob1

    trob1 New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Middle TN
    I just wanted to update how things are going. The goats are still on the crumbles and I also put pro biotic vit. powder on their feed. They all eat them with no problem and in fact they are eating more hay now than before so appetites are great. All the goats are very active doing all goaty things. I very seldom hear any coughing and only the occasional snotty nose. I am gonna continue the crumbles and have ordered an antibody injection for the goats and then will do the vaccine. I was going to wait till spring to vaccinate but have been encouraged to go ahead sooner now that the goats have improved so fast. I will do a booster however a month before they kid when I do the C,D & T shots.
    :hammer: knock on wood things continue to improve.

    Here is the injections I will be giving

    Respiragen Serum Antibodies


    Colorado Serum- For use as an aid in the prevention and treatment of enteric and respiratory conditions caused by Arcanobacterium Pyogenes-Mannheimia Haemolytica-Pasturella Multocida-Antibody Bovine Origin. Inject SQ or IM and repeat according to judgment of user. Administer at 12-24 hour intervals. Use multiple sites for IV or large doses. It is recommended to limit injections to no more than 10ml per injection site.

    Prevention:

    Calves - 20 to 40ml as soon after birth as possible

    Cattle: - 50-75ml

    Sheep - 10-15ml

    Treatment:

    Calves - 40-100ml

    Cattle - 75-150ml

    Sheep - 20-40ml

    Mannheimia Pasteurella Hem/Mult. Bact.
    Colorado Serum - For vaccination of healthy cattle, sheep and goats against pasteurellosis. Dosage: 2mL SQ. Administer two doses 2 to 4 weeks apart. Animals vaccinated when less than 3 months old should be revaccinated at weaning or at 4 to 6 months of age. 21 day withdrawal.
     
  8. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    Where does pasturella bacteria come from? Is it only present where there are cattle? Or carried by goats who have lived with cattle?

    Good to hear things are still doing well.
     
  9. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    First of all, Stacie, can we PLEASE make this a sticky???? I think this is some of the most important information I have received in a LONG time.

    Teresa. I thought that they were all doing better. I am glad that you did the research that was needed to treat them. Did you do the nasal swabs yourself? Did you get them from the vet and just take them and have them run the test? It reminds me of having a strep test done.
    OK, Did I understand it right. Another name for this is silent Pneumonia? Or is that something different.

    Thanks again for this information that you shared with us, and you just might of saved a life later.
     
  10. trob1

    trob1 New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Middle TN
    Sweetgoats they are doing better and better but if I stop treatment with out doing the other things first then it would just be a matter of time and one by one they would be showing symptoms again and at a time of stress, like kidding, erratic weather or home change then a full blown case can happen. They need help to build antibodys up to fight the pasturella. Pasturella is carried in the nose of any goat who has been exposed and lies dorment unless or untill the goat is weak from stress, over crowding and such then the pasturella takes over and a fullblown case happens and usually they spike a fever and are dead in 12 to 24 hours. That is why it is sometimes called silent pneumonia as many breeders never catch the fever and go out just to find a dead goat. I noticed 3 of my goats hunched in corners at feed time and flew into action and that is what saved my goats. The vet told me you have to start treatment while the fever is still there or it won't work. Scary stuff if you ask me. If I had decided to wait till morning it would have been too late. This just shows how important it is if a goat looks off take it temp and see what is going on. I however was fortunate enough to hear through third party that my new goats had been exposed to Pasturella in their previous home so that was in the back of my mind when they got sick. I guess testing depends on your vet. Mine let me take the swabs home and then take them back. He took them straight to Ellington Agriculture Center. I could have taken them up there myself but they were taking some other stuff there anyways so I let them do it. We are fortunate that our State has this facility and they even do necropsy for free if you use your goats for meat or milk. As far as the test go from what he told me they go by the presence of the pasturella in the nasel swap and the symptoms.

    As far as where Pasturella comes from, I am not sure but the reason the vaccines are bovine based is the same as everything else the cattle business is a big business and we poor goat folk well you know. And being bovine derived it doesnt always work but it is our best defense. I wonder too if it has anything to do with being around cattle or not but it is in the goat world big time and is passed around at fairs and shows alot.
     
  11. trob1

    trob1 New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Middle TN
    Here is an awsome article about this even though it is about cattle and pasturella it has alot of info us goat people can use.

    http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/VM056
     
  12. enjoytheride

    enjoytheride New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Humboldt Co Ca
    Thanks again and good luck with your continuting treatment
     
  13. sweetgoats

    sweetgoats Moderator

    Oct 18, 2007
    Peyton CO.
    You know Teresa, I hear SO many time that "my goat is not right or something". Ok the first thing I ask them is "What is their temp"? I am SO SICK of them saying . I do not have a thermometer. I mean that is the cheapest thing that should be in ever vet kit. So for Christmas, I boutht all my 4Hers one to go in their kit. I have to say i have like 4 in the vet kit, and I do not have any in the house. It seem like when ever I need one we go in and grab the humans one and so we have another for the kit.
    It sounds like that is proof that EVERYONE NEEDS to have one or two, if you did not take their temps, you might not of been so lucky.
    I just say, way to go and being on top of it. It sounds like it was a good thing that you had heard that one of your goats came from a place that has it.
    That and your quick thinking.
     
  14. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    Teresa so sorry you had to go thru all this, but thank you so much for sharing your experiences and all the info!
    Its one of those things in the back of my mind...I knew there was some kind of vac against it and now I know it is called Colorado Serum and will be dicussing it with my vet! :shades:
     
  15. trob1

    trob1 New Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Middle TN
    I have been so busy lately cleaning out the barn and disefecting that I havent been able to update the progress. Well a few days ago I decided with all the meds, and rain lately I should do fecals and make sure worms werent taking over. Well no worms but to my surprise there are cocci eggs in every fecal sample. I guess with them being sick it allowed the cocci to multiply so now I had to stop the Auromycin crumbles and start Sulmet on everyone. Thankfully Sulmet is also a good med for Pasturella so their treatment is still going even with the antibiotic change. Everyone has normal goat berries so at least I caught it before anyone was sick from cocci. I only have about 3 goats still coughing alittle. Everyone is so hyper latley running and jumping all over the place. They seem so happy and alert it make me realize they must have been feeling crummy for sometime. I guess that makes sense with goats being an animal of prey they usually try to hide illness till they just can't anymore. I will be doing fecals again in about a week to make sure all is clear. Oh and here is the slide showing the cocci eggs on the slide. This is the first time owning goats that cocci has shown up in a fecal for my herd. 2008 so far has been a struggle but I am determined to win this fight.

    [​IMG]
    See the polar cap on one end of the cocci egg
     
  16. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    polar cap is on the left? or am I missing it?
     
  17. Bona Fide

    Bona Fide New Member

    401
    Oct 9, 2007
    Kentucky
    Doing your own fecals is actually pretty neat - but please remember something I think needs to be thrown in there - for when folks are doing their own fecals for the first time so they don't wig out and get nervous....- and I'm posting verbatim from Fias Co website as she's worded it the best:

    Now, the big question, how many eggs can the goat have and be OK. How many mean an infestation? ALL GOATS HAVE SOME WORMS, so, do not panic if you find worm eggs in the sample, that is normal. There is no shame if your goat has worms. You just don't want lots of eggs. It's hard for me to tell you exactly what number is OK and what number of eggs is bad. Every situation is different. A healthy goat that has built up natural resistance to worms can handle a larger wormload than an unhealthy goat. The goal is not to have your goats be totally worm free, but just to maintain a consistent low wormload, with the goat showing no signs of parasite infestation. It this way, the goat builds natural resistance/immunity to worms. I do not worry about anything under 10 eggs. If I count in the teens, I still may not worry too much, depending on the health of the goat. If I counted over 20 eggs, I would probably treat the goat with a double dose of wormwood wormer for 3 days.

    Again - neat picture, glad you posted. Hope your goats are all doing well now. You can check out Fias Co website to see how to do your own fecals for those wanting to try it out - she's also got pictures of the different eggs/worms on slides prepared for your viewing...
     
  18. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    Bona Fide why don't you post that in the caprine special care section or better yet why not reply to the "worming" thread here in 101. That way it is more accessable for people who want to know about worms and fecals.
     
  19. Bona Fide

    Bona Fide New Member

    401
    Oct 9, 2007
    Kentucky
    I'm sorry - I didn't mean to steal the thread, just didn't want anyone to see it, try their own fecal and get nervous or overly excited over the results....
     
  20. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    This thread isn't about fecals so that shouldn't be an issue.

    why don't you start your own issue about fecals to help people with this issue? That would be helpful.