Petition

Discussion in 'Goat Frenzy' started by Coraxfeather, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. Coraxfeather

    Coraxfeather New Member

    936
    Oct 8, 2008
    Slippery ROckPA
    I was reading over on line today about maken a petition to make Nigerian Dwarf, Pygmy goat, and Tennesse fainten goats to become a domisted (sp) pets jsut like pot bellie pigs. We need like 5,000 signertures (sp) (also going to need someone to spell check it after it is completed) before I can take it too my state rep. Once it is in place is one state it will be easier to have it in place in others. Woudl anyoen else be willign to help out with this??
     
  2. Amos

    Amos New Member

    Oct 2, 2008
    Minnesota
    Re: Patiction (sp)

    May I ask what the main point of 'domesticating' smaller goats for this reason is? Just curious. Also, I think selling goats with Myotonic genes as this type of pet isn't a great idea, because there are too many people out there that would get one for the soul reason of tormenting.
     

  3. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    I am with Amos on the fainting goat end of it. I have had people ask me if I have the ones who faint and if I do if I scare them all the time! Then they say, I wan one just so I can run outside and see it fall over :roll: :angry:

    But I think for the pygmy and nigerian goat it wouldnt be a bad idea
     
  4. Sonrise Farm

    Sonrise Farm New Member

    Sep 18, 2008
    Southwick, Idaho
    not abad idea for pygmy/nigies. . .fainting goats would definitely NOT last long here . . .we have cougars,wolves and bears . . .they get scared and faint well they would be lunch . .or dinner. :roll: . But I do think they are very cute~
     
  5. liz

    liz Active Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    Shelocta PA
    You know...I get the same question Stacey...do you have the ones that faint? I don't think fainters should be kept by those who aren't responsible enough to love and enjoy the goat but just want it as a novelty to mistreat. A goat is a farm animal, regardless of size but to have a "mini" in a backyard in "town" kept in the same manner that most keep dogs just doesn't seem "right" to me....potbellied pigs are more of a "housepet" and most owners of them do keep them in their homes....do you think a goat would be happy inside a house? Or even in a kennel where they can't get out to browse and play? This is just my opinion, and I'm sure a petition like this would benefit those mini owners that show their goats but can't keep them where they live because of a ordinence against livestock....but I think it would be something taken advantage of by ignorant people.
     
  6. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    but if we get more poeple interested in goats we will get more goat vets :D and more buyers as well

    I know there will always be people who abuse what is ment for good. People already mistreat goats and dont see/understand their needs properly. But limiting people just because a small portion of them choose to not be informed isnt in our best interest or maybe it is. :shrug:
     
  7. Amos

    Amos New Member

    Oct 2, 2008
    Minnesota
    I agree with you Liz, I think alot of people would want to get a baby goat and treat it like one of those dogs you can put in your purse. But then, they grow up. Human socities would start to fill up with even more animals, by adding goats. I've already heard of and seen so many animals abused and neglected, I think it would just make it worse on the goats. But that is just my belief. Just Stacey, you are right, that would mean more business for breeders.
     
  8. Coraxfeather

    Coraxfeather New Member

    936
    Oct 8, 2008
    Slippery ROckPA
    I do nto have to have the fainten goat add to it. Jsut smaller goats.
     
  9. crocee

    crocee New Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Northeast Arkansas
    This is my take on what the petition might accomplish.

    While I understand the novelty of the fainter and the possible inhumane cruelty done by "children", both full size and pint sized varieties, I think the petition would allow more to own and care for the animals. Once domesticated it may be possible for those on city lots to have the pleasure of goat raising. My mothers deed/abstract sets specific limits on what animals can be on the land. Anything listed as livestock is not allowed, but anything listed as domesticated is fine. Chickens and ducks are allowed as long as they are not a total nuisance. With goats being domesticated she could raise a couple in the back yard. I am not sure backyard breeders would ever make a hit but they would become new buyers for your stock in the form of pets. Goats are much easier to raise than dogs. They can be housebroken/potty trained, and are not near as destructive to floors and furniture. They will let you know in a heartbeat if someone is in your house/yard with a really loud bleat. That alone would scare someone away. If the goat has horns it would only add to the effect. Think of all the possibilities a city goat would have. Think of all the possibilities a city 4-H'er might have. Many kids who want to join 4-H are unable to do so because of where their parents choose to live. The opportunities and possibilities are endless. Some of these kids may decide to become our future goat vets instead of the high dollar dog variety. I don't believe there would be an explosion of goats running loose like the feral dogs and cats as its much easier and cheaper to neuter a buck into a wether than it is a dog or cat. Most goats are also seasonal and only for a couple hours or days, unlike dogs and cats that are "always". I can see money to be made by the fertilizer end as city dwellers would be sweeping up those berries. I could fill a medium size bag with all the berries my 4 goats drop. This is a free, safe, never ending source of natural plant fertilizer that doesn't smell up the house. People would have to do a little research on what plants they keep around where the goats would be housed or had access to. They would also have to understand that goats are not meant to be "tied out" on a chain.

    In summary:
    While there would be a few problems, mostly the same with other types of domesticated animals, this is doable. The possibilities that could be opened up are endless. With a little research and care I can see it a very good venture if it was handled correctly.
    crocee
     
  10. crocee

    crocee New Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Northeast Arkansas
    I think if you were going to petition for the smaller goats to be classified as domesticated, you would have to include ALL goats bred to be a specific size when full grown. This could also cause a few problems when mix breeding. A Nubian x Myotonic is not always going to be the size of a Myotonic with the first breeding. Its going to be a toss up on which parent its size takes after. This in itself may cause a sticky situating. If you limit the breeds it will be deemed unfair and tossed out. Apartment complexes/Condos that allow pets do so as long as the pet is under a specific size. Those that allow Chihuahua and other small dogs may not allow a ST Bernard. This is just something to think about.
    crocee
     
  11. MissMM

    MissMM New Member

    645
    Oct 22, 2007
    McGregor, MN
    I can so emphasize with both sides of this issue......... one would think that a few pygmy or other dwarf breeds would be fine in the city, providing they had enough room to run & graze. I do see multiple issues though for prospective goat owners that bought one to bring home because they're so cute. Please don't missunderstand me, but I see potential for multiple problems for those future goats of owners that didn't do their homework:

    1. Goats are escape artists - how many potential goat owners do you think are going to do their homework to make sure they have the proper fencing?

    2. Goats will eat anything.... and everything.

    3. You shouldn't have just one, but how many owners will start out with just one to try it, then find themselves with a noisy, ornery goat because they're bored & scared without a herd mate?

    Imagine this...... we have a new goat owner in the city, plenty of yard space for the goatie to roam & play... but she's bored ... so the goatie "investigates" (as her natural instincts insist that she do)..... she sees the pretty flowers @ the house next door.... she finds a way to "escape" & eats the neighbor's prize-winning rose bushes.... then starts on their pink flamingo lawn ornaments & eats the heads off of each one..... then sees the nice, shiny BMW in the driveway and climbs all over it, putting perfect little hoof mark dents all over in it.....

    I could go on and on, but I think you get my point. Goats are livestock and belong on a farm, IMHO.
     
  12. Coraxfeather

    Coraxfeather New Member

    936
    Oct 8, 2008
    Slippery ROckPA
    But that can happen with dogs and cats and lizzards and POT BELLIE PIGs and just about any animals. I have a dog that like to go and visit the neighbors yard and tear up hie veggie garden. The point is there will always be draw back when you are going to dom a animal that has been deemed live sto9ck for a long time.

    Right now we have to sick with one or two breeds to get the ball rolling. I have looked in this. Sorry a bit of this is personal because of where I live and wanting my baby to be with me at home for the winter. I have a good size yard and plenty of space and a herd can be with other animals. My boy is well adjusted and runs with a nice heard of two dogs and three cats at home.

    There is also going to be a goat as a fasion statement like when at first the pot bellie pigs where and yes pot bellie pigs are the only domicated pig on the book the others are still farm animals. You also have to state what type of farm animal you are tryign to domicate.

    I will be haven the patiction wrote up for me and well as anyone that is willing to sign it and also make copies for you all to spread around your area or have a PDF file to send you.

    Liek Stacey also said this will get more people to learn how to treat and general health care for our animals. Vets are going to have to learn how to treat our little ones and we do not have to goto the Large animal vets to have our little goats looked at and also research coudl stem from this happeneing in the specilize care of goats. A cow and horse doc more then likely will kill a goat then save it. Funny last time I took Pancakes to the vet I knew more about goats them he did and he is a large animal vet AKA farm vet.

    There is a lot of pro and cons to this but I am thinkign the pros are out weighing the cons right now.
     
  13. StaceyRosado

    StaceyRosado Administrator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 4, 2007
    NJ
    the thing is people right now can purchase just one goat.........or they can improperly take care of one. It happens all the time.

    Stating a pygmy goat as a possible domesticated animal is not changing anything but making it more reachable by people who have the land but have been told they cant have a "farm animal."

    By making it a specific size and breed it forces the buyers to find breeders who have that specific animal (like someone needing ot find a small dog that is hypo alergenic) then we can give them the information on goats and how to take care of them properly etc, just like we do with all our buyers anyway.

    but the thing with a petition is that they are usualy for one county or local area. If you want to go national you need to get like a back for it I do believe, and that might need to be someone political. Not sure, never went that route before.
     
  14. Pam B

    Pam B New Member

    175
    Oct 15, 2007
    Southern Michigan
    Corax, for a petition to be effective in your state you must legally have only registered voters from your state sign the petition. If you are looking to turn the petition in to your local government, such as the county you live in, then you need to have registered voters in your county sign it. They will throw out any signatures of people who don't live in your area, and/or those who are not registered to vote, as ineligible. Also, for the wording you really need to get someone with a background in writing ordinances to make sure the wording is accurate and doesn't say something that you really don't intend for it to say. Cover all your bases so that you make sure you aren't wasting your time so you won't be disappointed.
     
  15. Coraxfeather

    Coraxfeather New Member

    936
    Oct 8, 2008
    Slippery ROckPA
    Thanks PamB. I am waiten for a lawyer to get back with me to see how much it is going to cost for them to write it up. And it is only inculden Pgymys and Nigerian dwarfs. The lawyer said it would be better to stick with two breeds max and go from there.
     
  16. capriola-nd

    capriola-nd New Member

    Jul 6, 2008
    Northwest Oregon
    We have owned and raised miniature goats in town for nearly four years. We have a big, big yard and the neighbor has a 2-acre pasture across the street. Our county allows three pygmy goats (or other mini goat) without a permit (we have a permit).
    I've had people come and see the place and say it looks way better than a farm! Obviously we keep things very clean - not only for the goats but also for neighbors.

    I agree that people need to be educated before bringing any goats home (it's true for someone living in the city or the country). My mom looked at goats for 11 years before buying two for us. She had no idea that two would turn into 15 at the farm! :D

    I have had several people come over and look at our set-up who are interested in getting goats in town. Most importantly, they need a "goat mentor" (as everyone here has needed at one time).

    Coraxfeather: If you need pics of a set-up in town, I can take some. :)
     
  17. Pam B

    Pam B New Member

    175
    Oct 15, 2007
    Southern Michigan
    I'm glad to hear you are having someone look it over. I hope you have good success with it.
     
  18. Coraxfeather

    Coraxfeather New Member

    936
    Oct 8, 2008
    Slippery ROckPA
    Well have to waite until the holidays before I start this. Money need money. So we ahve time to talk about it. Yes I woudl love pics of a set up that can be used and when all the legal thign s as in it wrote up is said and done I found out I am going to need about 10,000 names for it. But it is a worth while endever to do.
     
  19. Haviris

    Haviris Member

    428
    Oct 7, 2007
    I can see both sides of this, and am not sure exactly where I stand on it, I figure as long as I can have my goats I'll be happy, and I have no plans to move to town! So I'm not really going to comment on that.

    I do however have to disagree w/ some of the things crocee has to say (If I'm reading that right). #1 that goats are easy to housebreak/potty train, I've gotten some to pee outside or on certain things (towels), some were easy and did it almost instantly, other prefered to pee where they wanted and there wasn't much I could say about it. Pooping on the other hand, never could get that controled.

    #2 that they are alot less destuctive on furniture, have you ever had a bottle baby in your house? My family loves my kids til they hit about 2 weeks, then they're ready for me to leave them outside. They chew and taste everything, papers and fake plants (my mom's poor fake trees no longer have leaves on the bottom, you'd think one taste and they'd give up, but no), and anything else they want to destroy (they also love puzzle piece's).

    And #3 Goats as security systems, some goats are naturally noisey and others are quiet, if they are friendly they aren't that likely to try and run off a stranger, more likely to search them for treats and pets.

    I may have miss read that, if so sorry.

    I can see the good of mini goats becoming "pets", but I can also see the negatives. People just don't seem to bother doing any research, so I see goats in shelters getting more common, and breeders telling buyers whatever they need to make a sell (Goats are easy to housebreak, they don't shed, they only get about 15lbs, you don't need a yard, etc.).