Please help!

Discussion in 'Beginners Goat Raising' started by HoosierShadow, May 6, 2010.

  1. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Hey Everyone, maybe you can help. Tuesday I made the crazy decision to 'rescue' a doe from a local auction. I wasn't going to buy anything, but I felt so bad for her <and no I won't be buying just because I feel sorry for them!>. The meat buyer said she is worth saving, and he let me bid on her. There were plenty of others getting in on it too.

    Her name is Molly, she's a boer/nubian cross, she's estimated to be between 3-4 years, and I was told she has had 2 sets of twins. The farm she came from is downsizing their herds.
    She looks awful IMO, at least her coat does. She has some bumps on her neck, and I didn't notice them in the pen at the auction so I am wondering if it's where the other 2 girls have been ruffing her up?
    When you pet on her her hair comes out easily, and her hair is thin. I looked for any signs of skin irritation, but didn't see anything noticeable, no matts, no bugs, etc. I'm not real sure what to look for when it comes to things like lice, but I just didn't see anything other than just hair loss, and those large bumps on her neck.

    My other main concern is her foot. Her front left looks club footed, and she is walking very sore right now. Probably thanks to the fact when I was trying to unload her she got away and we went on a 30 minute chase before getting her into the pen...UGH.
    Her foot doesn't look great, I know she has wear from the way she walks on it, and it really does not look like her ankle is normal - again looks like a club foot to me<I used to take care of horses who were club footed so I know they wear the hoof down differently on a club foot. But her foot looks really short. I've gotten close enough to look and don't see anything significant, but tomorrow if she is still walking sore we're going to catch her and I want to inspect her foot.

    I'd love to save this girl and breed her. But I don't want her to be in pain, and we don't want any big vet bills - I was told her shots are up to date, but I do plan on worming her. I also wonder if she was being grain fed? She LOVES the grain and we buy the medicated grain I believe it has wormer and vitamins in it? We're going to actually switch feeds gradually to a better feed when what we have starts to get low.

    She's very VERY scared of people, and our 2 does <hooligans LOL> haven't accepted her, though they will let her come close to them they push her around. I feel awful, but at least she has a second chance at life! If it doesn't work out my husband will put her in the freezer!!! AH!
    Anyway, she isn't a pet, so I am okay if she never comes to us on her own and is cuddly, but if she is going to stay here she'll have to be used for breeding.
    We plan on buying 1-2 nice full blooded does, and we're looking at young bucks the next 2 days. We're hoping if we get a buck he'll bond with her?

    Here are some pics of Molly I took late this evening. I'd love for her to work out. I don't care if she isn't perfect right now, I just want to make sure I can get her healthy and happy. Call me crazy <my husband does LOL>, but it felt good getting her out of that place.

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    BTW, the red on her is where they sprayed her at the auction...
    And anything 'dark' on her hair is just dirt.
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    Super hard to get pics of the foot. Tomorrow I'll be taking a closer look at her foot.
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  2. AlaskaBoers

    AlaskaBoers New Member

    May 6, 2008
    Wasilla Alaska
    1) I love the pics, what camera do you use?

    From what I can tell, her hoof looks normal, but needs the soles trimmed, it looks as if the sole is too thick and she might have something stuck in it.
    I'd get her wormed, and if you want to, I'd draw blood and test for Johnes, CL and CAE, just to make sure the breeder wasn't just culling her positive goats. looks like she has an awesome place, so I 'd give her hay too so the rich grass isn't too much for her. She could use some feed and worming, she'll be a nice doe
     

  3. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks so much! We have to get the hoof trimmer this weekend, so we'll do some trimming. I'll have my husband help me catch her in the morning and we'll check out her foot and see what's going on.

    Do you know what those tests typically cost? Just curious as we have only had our other two does for almost 2 weeks now. I will call around tomorrow as we need to find a vet anyway. And we have to get wormer to keep on hand, so I want to get that as well.

    We have the good goat feed from our local feed store, and we have a mineral block, but we need to buy another one. We have hay I think it's timmothy hay? Whichever kind was recommended for goats. We didnt' give them any today, but I'll put some out tomorrow - we are still building our goat shed, so we don't have a hay rack built yet. So I just give them a little on the ground. Hopefully we can get their shed done within the next week so I can start on the inside, I can't wait!

    CAMERA -- I have the Canon 40D and was using my 70-200mm f2.8 lens. That's why some of the pics were a bit blurry - I was too close to her with my lens. I LOVE this camera and lens. I photograph horses <racehorses - at the track & sales>. So now I am going to have fun photographing the girls :) I took these pics around 8pm.
     
  4. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Medicated grain usually just means it has Cocci preventative in it. This does nothing for worms. I would worm her with Safeguard and Ivermectin asap.

    Be careful of the lumps on her neck, it could be CL abscesses.

    As the the hoof, it could be hoof rot allowed to run it's course. You probably want to trim it up real good and pour some hydrogen peroxide over it. If her hoof smells really bad then I would start her on LA-200 because it's probably a nasty cause of hoof rot.
     
  5. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks, we do have hydrogen peroxide, or if I ran out I'll get more tomorrow. We'll get the wormer on Saturday when my husband is off work.

    I just looked up info on Cl, and it says it affects them under the ears on the lymph gland? These are on her neck, but not under her ear. And I think they are only on the right side.

    Any idea how much those tests usually cost and how soon you can get results?

    Also, I recall the auction I bought her from that they inspect all animals. So if she had those on her neck, wouldn't they take note of it?
     
  6. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Honestly I wouldn't trust any auction barn, but that's just me.

    CL can happen anywhere there are lymph nodes. There are some right in front of the shoulder blade where the neck meets the body.

    If you draw the blood and send it in yourself Cl test is something like $9 and CAE and Johnes are $6 each. That's if you go through washington state. There is also an accession fee of $10.

    I have no idea what your vet would charge. :shrug:

    The most accurate test for CL is a test of junk from the abscess. If these bumps do become abscesses be very careful handling the contents. Don't let any of it touch the ground and use gloves yourself since people can get CL.
     
  7. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks again! So CL is just like 'Strangles' right? I looked up picturs of CL but it doesn't look anything like what Molly has. They are just a few little bumps on the top of the side of her neck. Not sure if they have been there or not, you have to feel under the hair for them and they aren't huge. I wonder if they could be from vaccinations? and my does have been giving her a hard time, could it be from headbutting her? THey were HARD on her the first day, but they've backed off since then.

    I'm attaching a closeup of the area.
     

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  8. RunAround

    RunAround New Member

    Feb 17, 2008
    Massachusetts
    Yeah, they are in a weird spot for CL. I would just keep an eye on them and as long as they don't come to a head your good.

    Cl isn't Stangles, they may be in the same class of bacteria, but not the same one as far as I know.

    They could be vaccine bumps, but why three of them? Also not likely from head butting, but who knows. Maybe bug bites? Like old tick bites? Or bee stings?
     
  9. nancy d

    nancy d Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Oct 5, 2007
    near Seattle
    I agree with Runaround, this isnt a place for CL lumps.
    Most folks vac either armpit shoulder or hollow area behind the last rib for meds.
     
  10. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks. I will keep an eye on them, but I am thinking they are not CL. The pics of CL look a lot like strangles. Years ago I worked on a thoroughbred horse breeding farm, and an infected horse got on the farm. It went through one of the barns, and when they were moving horses around to start the fall sales prep, they moved 3 of our weanlings out, and 3 others in. One baby was sick, but NOBODY said anything. I'm still bitter over that. We had a barn of 17 weanlings and all but 1 or 2 got Strangles. It was a nightmare, all those abscesses, when they'd burst and drain, the snotty noses, congestion, fevers, loss of appetite. I never want to deal with anything like that again! They all got over it, but that was heartbreaking knowing they were so miserable.
    I couldn't imagine seeing our girls get sick.

    The woman that brought her to the sale was nice, and gave me her phone number, so I can call her and see if she can give me an idea of what those bumps were if I need to. It's a goat farm where they breed for meat, and dairy so surely they test their goats if they are being used for human consuption?. These people are also regulars at this auction and seemed to have a good status. While it's not a fancy auction, it is highly noteable in the area. So that gives me some hope that she isn't sick. She definitely doesn't act ill at all, she eats...eats...eats LOL And when it's time for grain, she'd gladly plow the other girls over for it! But I do feed her seperate - the temporary feeder my husband made isn't big enough for 3.

    So... I think once we get our buckling, hopefully this weekend. We'll most likely have him and Molly bloodtested. I know our other girls have been tested and are fine - awesome, awesome breeder, I wish she would sell us more of her does!

    I don't mind nursing Molly back to health as long as it doesn't cost me a fortune <We're spending a fortune on making their shed!>. I really like her, and I think if we can get her to not be so afraid of us, she'll really be a nice addition.
    My husband was raised around goats in Mexico <his dad is a goat farmer>, and he isn't worried at all about her. Maybe I worry too much?
     
  11. crocee

    crocee New Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Northeast Arkansas
    They look like an itch that has gotten infected. This goat is using her horns to scratch and if you look at them you will notice they are rather sharp. One of the pics shows hair stuck to the horn tip. I don't know how tame she is but I would catch her and trim some of that hair off. This will let the sun get down to the skin level and cure some of this up. Don't shave her bald, just much shorter. A shot of A&D wouldn't hurt either.
     
  12. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks! I am sure we can catch her. And she does scratch with her horn off and on I've seen her do it <all three of our does do>.

    She wasn't walking as sore when I was out this morning, but hubby wasn't able to come out so I'll have to wait to catch her and inspect her foot. She seems a little more content out there today - the other two does are letting her get closer. In fact our 'bossy' girl is laying down much closer than usual.

    I do recall when I was looking at her yesterday that her skin looked really good, no dandriff, no dirt, sores, etc. Just those bumps. I wonder with her being in such a large production herd if they aren't from past injuries? They dont' seem like 'infection' as the skin doesn't seem irritated like infection. But then I am new to goats so I don't know how similar they are to horses. I know on the horses I used to take care of you could tell an infectious bump from the others.

    I'm trying to 'ease' her into letting us touch her. So far it's only when I feed her, and I rub all over her, her chest, her shoulders her back, and yesterday I was rubbing her neck real good. I don't think she'll go bald, but her hair just came out really easy when I was rubbing her. Maybe I am just worrying myself. I just don't want her to be sore, and I want her to work out in our herd because I really like her.
     
  13. crocee

    crocee New Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Northeast Arkansas
    You might see if she will let you brush her. The hair coming out may be her winter undercoat. Animal crackers or other cookies work great for taming the wild goat.
     
  14. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks! I think i might still have a brush from a dog we used to have years ago. I remember cleaning everything up and I know I kept collars & leash, I'll go look in the box and see if there is a brush too. If not I'll pick up one this weekend when we get the wormer. It definitely could be her winter coat.

    And I was wondering if they could have animal crackers! We ALWAYS keep animal crackers in the house - I buy the big bags at Walmart for like $2.00 and everyone snacks on them. The other day my daughter had some out in the pen that she was eating and wanted to give the girls some but we weren't sure if it was a good idea. Hopefully it will help bring Molly around.
     
  15. toth boer goats

    toth boer goats Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Jul 20, 2008
    Corning California
    Excellent Advice everyone..... :thumb:

    She is a very pretty doe..... the lumps may be from bug bites....if there was 3 ticks lodged under her skin and she was itching at it with her horn ...she may of broke the bodies off....and their heads remain so... it possibly festered...I agree that It isn't in a CL location..... :wink:
     
  16. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Well I caught her when I fed her - just held her horn while she ate, and looked at her foot. It doesn't look awful but looks really worn down and tender, so I am going to have my husband bring home some vet wrap. I don't think I have any peroxide, so I need to get some <all I have is alcohol>, I do have some triple antibiotic ointment and epsom salt. I want to get it cleaned up tomorrow and I think if we wrap it and keep it clean that'll help a lot.

    I checked those bumps on her neck and they don't seem any bigger. She has one or two on the other side of her neck in about the same place as the pic I posted. She also has a bigger one down near her shoulder. They seem 'old' not something new that is just popping up, but could be me. I thought about having my husband bring home a syringe, and we'll pull her from the pen and see what is in the lump.

    I really think she was at the bottom of the pecking order, and wonder if these could be knots from being knocked around by others? As scared as she is of our two does, I really do believe she was a bottom feeder. At least that's what I want to believe.
    She overall, is healthy, and nothing looks to be CL, I just want to figure out what is causing those knots/bumps so we can try to get rid of them. We'll keep a close eye on them.

    She was walking better today, so that is good. Her appetite seems to be better and better, and she even looks like she's put on a tiny bit of weight since she's been here. She LOVES the grain, but is still timid when offered any treats. When I caught her, she didn't fight me too much, and let me look at her foot with ease. I held her horn while she ate, and just rubbed all over her, talking to her, and trying to get her to relax. She only tensed when my two bullies came over to investigate, so that is why I really do believe she was picked on badly at the farm she came from.
     
  17. crocee

    crocee New Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Northeast Arkansas
    To clean her feet you can also use good old fashioned Lysol, yes the smelly stuff in the brown bottle.

    Are the spots actual lumps or just small bumps. If just small bumps it could be soremouth( it doesn't always occur on the mouth), or it may even be a bit of staph infection. Are the spots missing the hair? Wondering if she got CMPK shots for milk fever( only if she has been bred before ).

    Its really good that you could catch her. It sounds like shes just a bit scared right now but she will learn her place. Its best that all the goats fight it out and make their ranks known. Everyone will get along eventually. To help her gain weight you can feed her separately so she doesn't have competition. Most goats go through this adjustment period when they move to a new home.
     
  18. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Thanks crocee! The bumps are under the skin, and not coming to a head, but you can feel them. They aren't rock hard, they are kind of soft. I am going to show them to my husband in the morning and see what he thinks of them. If we have to put a needle in and see what is in there, we will - he knows how to do that stuff - he works with horses, does all the shots/medication, etc. They don't hurt her when I touch them, or at least she didn't respond at all when I touched them/tried to grasp them, pushed on them/etc. Could definitely be injection sites of some sort, who knows...This mystery is driving me crazy LOL

    It's 2am here <I am a night owl>. Windy, and off and on rain. I looked outside and the poor girl was standing outside of the unfinished shed - the other two does won't let her go in the temporary shelter I made for them <it's plenty big>. So....the only alternative shelter I could come up with in the dark was to take my plastic patio table out there. I put it in the corner inside the unfinished shed to help give her protection from the wind/rain. As soon as I left the pen and observed she went up under it and laid down. I LOVE how smart goats are. She knew I put it out there for her, and I am glad she did! I'd have felt awful if she wasn't out of the weather.

    My husband is at work <he does nightwatch at a thoroughbred horse breeding farm>, and he said there is something they use there that they soak the horses feet in I just can't remember what it is, not sure if it's something I ever used when I worked with horses, so he'll either bring some home from work or we'll try to get some. If that fails I'll try the Lysol. Either way I want to clean her foot out tomorrow.

    Would Epsom salt be a bad idea to soak her foot in? Just wondering because I do have a little bit left. When I worked with horses we couldn't keep the stuff around enough!
     
  19. HoosierShadow

    HoosierShadow Senior Member

    Apr 19, 2010
    Central Kentucky
    Well...now I am concerned and puzzled. I think I am going to have my husband put her across the creek in the wooded area that is fenced until we get her tested.
    I checked her again this morning and she has little lumps all over her neck. A couple of them are dried out and hard/healing. There is one about the size of a marble on her neck, and another one that is smaller. And today I noticed a little one coming up under her left ear on her jaw. She has no signs of ever having sores there before. I hope to hell I didn't bring home a sick animal! So we'll just seperate her from our girls, and hopefully it's nothing - but I want to have her checked out on Monday for sure. She's not the most beautiful, not the sweetest, etc. but I really want her to work out, and not be sick. Forget the $$ I spent on her, sure I am upset, but I am more worried about trying to get her healthy than what I spent on her. I've always wanted to rescue an animal and nurse one back to health - so I was prepared to take on one that had a hurt foot - but I won't risk our girls... Live and learn.

    I am going to MAKE my husband go out there and look at her with me when he gets up.

    As far as her limp she is walking a lot better this morning. I am sooo upset about this. When I was a kid we bought animals from the auction all the time- no problem. But surely other people who were checking her out wouldn't have bid on her if they thought it was CL? There were 2-3 people...
     
  20. crocee

    crocee New Member

    Jul 25, 2008
    Northeast Arkansas
    Some people who are just starting out don't even know about CL unless they do a little research. Can you take pictures of the lumps? or does she have too much hair. Actually I would carefully trim this goat so you can actually see what your dealing with. All jaw lumps are not CL. Some, in fact most are infections cause by a thorn or other foreign substance getting stuck in the tooth or gum, or a sticker that got lodged in the skin. IF you can get anything out of one of the lumps, send it in for testing. This is the only way you will know for sure. Otherwise you are going to worry yourself sick. CL can be managed if it turns out this is what the lumps are.